Love does not exist
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Benggot 
Posts: 16
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 Posted: 07:36PM Apr 27, 2010 |
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What is this love that people say they have?
Its not an Emotion.
(joy, anger, sadness, they're emotions)
Its not an action
(caring is an action, trusting is an action, what do yhou do when you love anyway?)
And it cannot be scientifically proven to exist
So what is it?
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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stephiesd
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Posted: 07:41PM Apr 27, 2010 |
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Love is a decision. which (hopefully) turns into a lifestyle, manifesting itself into actions.
"You can't stop the pterodactyl. The pterodactyl does what the pterodactyl wants." - JMM |
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Benggot
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Posted: 07:49PM Apr 27, 2010 |
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Then how can you decide love? Others say that it would always be there.... and others say it would just happen. Your the first I heard that could say. "Yes, I decide to love something"
And if its a decision. how can you be so sure that you already made it?
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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HarryPutter 
The Seeker
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Posted: 11:05PM Apr 27, 2010 |
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I would personally argue there is scientific proof of love....what scientists refer to as biological altruism and kin selection, is called the 'unconditional love' of parents/family. I also believe we can, over time, care and trust a person, as well as intellectually connect - this combination of emotion/action is referred to as 'love'. It's just the term assigned to describe this combination...if you want, you can tell your girl "I trust, care, and intellectually connect with you!". Whatever floats your boat.
The other forms of love like romantic love are the ones that I would agree aren't real, but I wouldn't say they 'don't exist'. It's an illusion, sure, but it doesn't make it any less existing. It exists...as an illusion. As do many other illusions like government and democratic societies that are taken to be real. But even so, I don't exactly see a problem with that. It's just the way we've been conditioned as a society to think and believe.
btw expect 1 Corinthians 13 in 5...4...3... 
---This message was edited on 11:06PM Apr 27, 2010--- |
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Benggot
Posts: 16
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Posted: 03:26AM Apr 28, 2010 |
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HarryPutter*
Your good. I was just looking for a person intelligent enough to argue on this subject... I never thought I'd ever see a good reply this early
But...
that Biological Altruism that you said, it means that animals may do things for the benefit of others (or something like that)
And the Kin selection refers to changes in gene frequency of organisms in different generations, caused by interactions with other beings. Its kinda related to evolution
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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Paladin
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Posted: 04:13PM Apr 28, 2010 |
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Emotions cannot be proven.
Emotional responses can, however.
Saying any emotion does or does not exist is purely dependent upon your definition of the word "exist". "Love" is merely a term used to decribe an emotion, or set of emotions. The emotional responses are scientifically proven and irrefutable. However, there are many "types" of love, each having different effects.
What it boils down to is that people use the word "love" to describe a specific set of emotions, which certainly do exist.
"The greatest cause of unhappiness in the world today is trading what we want most for what we want now." |
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Benggot
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Posted: 02:15AM Apr 29, 2010 |
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*paladin
So.... scientifically speaking.... since you said emotions cannot be proven, then they do not exist. Scientifically...
and since you said love is a term that is used to describe an emotion, which based on your discussion, could not be scientifically proven to exist, therefore, love does not exist also.
Furthermore, if love only describes... then why do we say "I love you", Which instates that it is also a verb and not merely an adjective?
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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Paladin
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Posted: 11:37AM Apr 29, 2010 |
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Benggot wrote: *paladin
So.... scientifically speaking.... since you said emotions cannot be proven, then they do not exist. Scientifically...
and since you said love is a term that is used to describe an emotion, which based on your discussion, could not be scientifically proven to exist, therefore, love does not exist also.
Furthermore, if love only describes... then why do we say "I love you", Which instates that it is also a verb and not merely an adjective?
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
Science doesn't prove words.
Science cannot prove "up". Does up exist? It certainly does.
Science cannot prove the constellation Ursa Major exists. Sure, we can see it... so we can prove the evidence of it exists, but science doesn't (YET) have the ability to prove it is actually made up of stars, so science cannot "prove" it exists.
Similarly, science cannot prove love exists, but can prove the effects of what we define as "love". Since the effects can be proven, we label the cause of these effects with the word "love", thus love exists.
And I didn't say love "only" describes... I said love "describes". There was no exclusivity in what I said. Many words in the English language can be adjectives and verbs or nouns and verbs or nouns and adjectives. However, how can science prove a verb?
Can science prove "am" exists? (I am smiling.) Can science prove "like" exists? (Bill likes tuna.) Can science prove "did" exists? (Tom did his homework.)
In your last context, "love" is merely a stronger form of the word "like", and somewhat synonymous with "adore":
I like cheese.
I love cheese.
I adore cheese.
I don't think your initial premise had anything to do with this form of the word "love". I think you were talking about the noun, not the verb.
Edit: I think a decent analogy to use here is gravity. Science cannot prove gravity, but can only witness and record the effects of it. Does gravity exist? Who knows... but we certainly know its effects exist. Science accepts gravity exists based on its effects. Similarly, science accepts love exists based on the effects.
---This message was edited on 11:39AM Apr 29, 2010---
"The greatest cause of unhappiness in the world today is trading what we want most for what we want now." |
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Benggot
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Posted: 06:25PM Apr 29, 2010 |
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*paladin
Yes.... you are correct, science does not prove words. But then again, love is not merely a word.
To like is to pleasure with
To adore is to idolize
What about to love? what is it?
When you say "I like you". It means you enjoy this person
When you say "I adore you" It means you know this person is better than you
What if you say "I love you"? what do you do when you do that?
BTW, anything about facts and knowledge, that's a science. So language is a science... under the branch Social Science, and then again, under linguistics. So then again, they are facts
Yes indeed, love is a word, but you cannot concretely explain what this word is
And yes, we can see Ursa Major... it is a bear, but that's just a pattern in the sky. all constellations are. We all know bears cant be in outer space (unless someone launches them off.)
It's like art. We see Mona Lisa and we don't need to prove that she was alive or not.
But love is not a constellation, love is undefined, love is not concrete, and love cannot be proven.
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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Yazmeen
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Posted: 10:42PM Apr 29, 2010 |
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Love exists, we just don't know how to explain it yet.
Like 400 years ago, people didn't know what (insert name of a disease here) was and they couldn't see it or prove it, but it was still there.
Definition of LEADER: Someone who dares to stand up in a group of people, helps that group become a team, and then helps that team reach their goal however big or small it may be. ~Yazmeen (me!) Have 4wheels' amazing cookies! Ramadan Mubarak! |
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Benggot
Posts: 16
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Posted: 11:22PM Apr 29, 2010 |
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Diseases are different...
they are there... you know it's there, there is scientific proof that it's there,
and there is concrete proof that it's there
Love, you can never really tell if it is there
there is no scientific proof that it is there
there is no concrete proof that it's there
Yes... you trust, you care, you like, you adore, you enjoy... but what if it's just that?
What is "to love" anyway? I know its not an action.
And for the gravity thing... we can explain that gravity is there, even if we can't see it, you know its there, even if we can't explain it, its there. But then again with love....
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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HarryPutter
The Seeker
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Posted: 11:36PM Apr 29, 2010 |
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I'm not convinced you refuted my point on biological altruism. Of course it's related to evolution...evolution is still occurring today. Isn't it logical to suggest that our modern concept of "love" simply evolved from this form? Isn't that what love is? Selflessness and sacrifice for others? So there is scientific evidence, in my opinion.
But even moreover, how the hell do you scientifically study love? Love isn't a concept of science. That's like saying since there is no tangible evidence of stupidity existing, stupidity doesn't exist. I'm sure you see the flaw in your logic.
---This message was edited on 11:36PM Apr 29, 2010--- |
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Benggot
Posts: 16
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Posted: 12:04AM Apr 30, 2010 |
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I see no flaw in my logic, I'm saying love does not exist, NOT ONLY because it cannot be proven scientifically, but also because you cannot explain what it is, you cannot explain how it is, and you cannot explain if it is there, or if it is not there.
Selflessness and sacrifice for others, doesn't necessarily mean love. It can mean loyalty and respect, like how the Japanese Samurai used to die by the order of their master. It could also be for the survival of the species, like how wildebeests cross the river, willing to get eaten by crocodiles, just so the other hundreds would pass on. It could also be for reputation, and duty, and many other reasons.
So, until someone concretely convinces me...
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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HarryPutter
The Seeker
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Posted: 03:53PM Apr 30, 2010 |
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Benggot wrote: I see no flaw in my logic, I'm saying love does not exist, NOT ONLY because it cannot be proven scientifically, but also because you cannot explain what it is, you cannot explain how it is, and you cannot explain if it is there, or if it is not there.
Ironically enough you commit a logical fallacy i.e. appeal to ignorance while trying to explain why your logic is not flawed. 
ON to the rest of your post, just because other words/concepts can be attributed to certain characteristics, doesn't mean it cannot be attributed to love. For example, I can say stupidity does not exist because when someone doesn't know 2+2 = 4, it can also be forgetfulness. They may have just forgotten how to do math. So it's not NECESSARILY stupidity.
The sacrifice to save your species is altruism...but that's where love comes from. Like an animal trying to protect her young, for example. The evolutionary reason she must is so her genes and species can continue on, but that doesn't occur to her - it's the love for her young that motivates her. We just use the word "love" to describe this motivation. Now all you're basically arguing is semantics.
---This message was edited on 03:54PM Apr 30, 2010--- |
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Paladin
Posts: 7485
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Posted: 04:27PM Apr 30, 2010 |
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HarryPutter wrote: We just use the word "love" to describe this motivation. Now all you're basically arguing is semantics.
That's what I've been saying all along... science cannot prove or refute semantics.
"Love" is a word we use to describe a collection of emotions, and it is a purely subjective term to make matters worse. What "love" is to one person may be different to another, but it is merely a label we apply to a set of emotions and the responses these emotions elicit.
To say "love", as a concept, does not exist is basically looking everyone (who has ever felt or experienced love) in the eye and calling them liars. I know love exists because I've experienced it. Therefore, I have personal knowledge of love.
It may not exist for YOU, but it certainly exists, Benggot.
"The greatest cause of unhappiness in the world today is trading what we want most for what we want now." |
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Benggot
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Posted: 07:36PM Apr 30, 2010 |
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This is a quote from my friend,
"Emotions are not concrete and cannot be proven therefore they don't exist." Justine Paul Bartolo
(if you want to hunt him down... he lives in the Philippines, Roxas Ciity, Capiz)
And since love is consisted of emotions, then... It implies that it does not exist....
It's all in our heads, both emotion's and love.
Think about it, the Japanese never believed in love even after the Spaniards introduced it to them, because though they felt something in their heads, they still think their honor is the most important. So if no one had ever introduced this feeling that they have had inside, no one would even know it's there, because it isn't. And I know that if we all lose our memory and start over, then maybe we won't witness love again.
And yes... I have felt love, I feel it right now, I know it is real. This is an argument that I have had with myself for so long.. I just can't explain how it is existing.
that's why...
I'm still not convinced that love exists.
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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WolfMoon
Posts: 127
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Posted: 05:01PM May 10, 2010 |
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Benggot wrote:
I see no flaw in my logic, I'm saying love does not exist, NOT ONLY because it cannot be proven scientifically, but also because you cannot explain what it is, you cannot explain how it is, and you cannot explain if it is there, or if it is not there.
Are you kidding? you cant explain where our consciousness is, but its there. You cant even explain why the universe itself exists at all, but its here. Love in a sense is a pleasure, just so strong that it is overpowering to the brain (yes, i am implying that love is an emotion). Emotions dont EXIST, they are kind of a section of our mental plane, and mental planes dont exist, BUT they are there.
---This message was edited on 05:03PM May 10, 2010--- |
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Yazmeen
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Posted: 09:45PM May 10, 2010 |
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WolfMoon wrote: Are you kidding? you cant explain where our consciousness is, but its there. You cant even explain why the universe itself exists at all, but its here. Love in a sense is a pleasure, just so strong that it is overpowering to the brain (yes, i am implying that love is an emotion). Emotions don't EXIST, they are kind of a section of our mental plane, and mental planes don't exist, BUT they are there. Yes! Perfect! That is what I was trying to say! I just couldn't get it into words.
Definition of LEADER: Someone who dares to stand up in a group of people, helps that group become a team, and then helps that team reach their goal however big or small it may be. ~Yazmeen (me!) Have 4wheels' amazing cookies! Ramadan Mubarak! |
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Benggot
Posts: 16
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Posted: 07:21AM May 11, 2010 |
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WolfMoon wrote:
Are you kidding? you cant explain where our consciousness is, but its there. You cant even explain why the universe itself exists at all, but its here. Love in a sense is a pleasure, just so strong that it is overpowering to the brain (yes, i am implying that love is an emotion). Emotions dont EXIST, they are kind of a section of our mental plane, and mental planes dont exist, BUT they are there.
Well you said it, they don't exist. So i'm right from the start...
I will never be convinced that love exists, won't I?
The only way a man would live is if his hands, his mind, and his heart would work together as one. |
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HarryPutter
The Seeker
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Posted: 07:29PM May 11, 2010 |
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She meant they don't exist in the concrete sense that you're suggesting they must exist in, but clearly everything cannot be based on concrete, physical evidence. As she pointed out other things such as consciousness clearly exist without that physical proof.
Everything about your argument is flawed in my opinion. There is no logical or realistic basis to it, considering your premise from the start (i.e. there must be physical, concrete evidence for it to exist) is false.
---This message was edited on 07:29PM May 11, 2010--- |
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