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let's just talk about two comparatively different objects

no		9 (your vote)
	Total Votes:	9

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Life_Sucks

Posts: 2519

Posted: 02:06PM Sep 11, 2012

cats + dogs
ketchup + mustard
black + light black

the air is full of dust

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rolugomi

Posts: 391

Posted: 05:44PM Sep 11, 2012

i see what you're doing

You came back :)

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glowingredbob

Posts: 95

Posted: 07:39PM Sep 11, 2012

I agree. All of this "This thing or that thing" is getting spammy.

Sarcastic is the one word that defines me.

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Life_Sucks

Posts: 2519

Posted: 09:42PM Sep 11, 2012

wow you guys, don't be so meta about this

rain + rainbows
truth + dare

the air is full of dust

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LogicalRoger

Posts: 2441

Posted: 03:15AM Sep 12, 2012

love + rockets

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JQPublic

Posts: 1756

Posted: 08:16AM Sep 12, 2012

Let's not be so discouraging ...

and respect his preference for this vs. that. They aren't doing any harm here and could lead to really deep philosophical discussions ...

'An idea, like a ghost, must be spoken to a little before it will explain itself.' - Charles Dickens

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glowingredbob

Posts: 95

Posted: 09:50AM Sep 12, 2012

They have as much chance of having deep philosophical discussions as I do winning the lottery: slim to none.

Sarcastic is the one word that defines me.

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HarryPutter

Posts: 2931

Posted: 12:14PM Sep 12, 2012

Ahh I see what's going on here. Wyse is creating an ironic commentary on the prevalence of false dichotomies in society. This illusion put forth by authority that we only have "this or that" choice; an obvious analogy to the 2012 US Presidential election. The Democrats or the Republicans...there seem to be no available alternatives - even though there are (except they're not fairly represented as such to the public).
Let's go back a millennia and a half to some of classic dichotomies - the Euthyphro dilemma. Or perhaps we can even look at Pascal's Wager which uses the same logic as a false dichotomy. In the Euthyphro dilemma, Socrates posits the very important question - "Is God good, or is good God?". That is to say that does good transcend God to the point that good is of a higher, objective autohrity (i.e. making good God). Or does God arbitrarily decide what "good" is, hence making morality a matter of God's whims rather than an objective principle.

Let us deeply discuss this philosophical problem.

---This message was edited on 12:19PM Sep 12, 2012---

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The_Spider

Posts: 127

Posted: 02:30PM Sep 12, 2012

We all knew that Harry, the rest of us didn't feel the need to spell out the obvious

Next Up: Breaking New From HarryPutter: The Earth Revolves around the Sun

---This message was edited on 02:32PM Sep 12, 2012---

Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu

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HarryPutter

Posts: 2931

Posted: 02:35PM Sep 12, 2012

Not all of us understand the wisdom that comes with wyse, I was just pointing it out. And I find it convenient that you totally ignored the deeper, ancient philosophical problems in the undertones of wyse's inquiries.

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LogicalRoger

Posts: 2441

Posted: 04:28PM Sep 12, 2012

wut u srs m8. der int nuthink ere but choises. it aint sum big fisyofical dielemmer o whever. juz pick 1 arite.

dont hafta b a bran sientist or nuthink. juz look u no.

and it onlys got 1. u lot is mental forreals tho. pick it ok.

edit: i pickd it arite. u dont hafta.

---This message was edited on 04:30PM Sep 12, 2012---

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The_Spider

Posts: 127

Posted: 05:12PM Sep 12, 2012

Harry, I don't think you are giving Wyse or I our due credit. Though the deep insights presented in Wyse's postulates are self-evident, you are focusing to deeply on the past and not on the present. I agree, Wyse's statements reflect a universal, in a way, timeless, truth about the human condition, yet his statements were more a means to stimulate ideas on improving that condition moving forward, a call to action if you will. We can go back and forth on the veracity of Socrates and Pascal all day, but it is much more pertinent to start with the great philosophers of our own time, and why not start with Wyse?

Not daring to put too many of my own words into Wyse's mouth, I think I can safely say I am in agreement with him. As you pointed out, there are political implications in his statements. It is, however, shortsighted to narrow your interpretation to such a specific area. Afterall, you only look at the idea of the dichotomy itself, yet not the ACTUAL dichotomies. For example, he asked us to discuss colors and shapes? Was Wyse not speaking of both the true nature of good and evil i.e. black and white, while at the same time commenting on the effects of modern racism? The shape section of this postulate also contains double meaning. It also is intertwined with the themes of racism and tolerance, and how me must accept people no matter what they may look like. At the same time, it compels us, no demands us to take action and 'shape' the future of mankind by ridding ourselves of the evils of racism.

Far be it from me to tackle his other subjects. I will leave it to greater minds than myself to dissect the vast volume of knowledge entombed within them. I think I have done my part in trying to expand upon some of the deep ideas that Wyse has brought to our collective mindset. He only asks that we try our best to reach his level of insight on such important matters, and for that, I say he is truly Wyse.

Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu

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LogicalRoger

Posts: 2441

Posted: 07:28PM Sep 12, 2012

Oh for craizakes, you hipsters. Topics like these really ought to be limited. Wyse has a TB that he promotes, doesn't he? Well, I don't mean to be rude, but perhaps you lot could have those philosophical discussions over there instead.

Also, I must say, I dislike how GD is pretty much other forums' dumping ground. I understand that it would be, based on the fact that it lacks category specification, but personally I think some of those topics Wyse made were debates, even if they were not very controversial, and thus didn't really have a reason to be moved here.

My legitimate two cents because satire is a dead genre. [No offence to you two, but seriously, what's up with the length? Are you guys secretly Seth McFarlane?]

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Life_Sucks

Posts: 2519

Posted: 08:14PM Sep 12, 2012

wyse are you reading this
wyse are you real
wyse hello

the air is full of dust

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jaycr

Posts: 2193

Posted: 08:32PM Sep 12, 2012

The responses to a topic do not necessarily reflect the original posters intellect. If you wanna believe that fine, give credit where you believe credit is due.

It's not what you know, it's what people think you know.

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The_Spider

Posts: 127

Posted: 07:41AM Sep 14, 2012

Hipsters?!, to be called that is a badge of honor to those of us on the front lines of progressivism and enlightenment. It is beneath me to think of people in terms of 'superior' and 'inferior', but I have gathered enough to let's just say, diagnose that Harry and I seem to see things on a 'different' plane. I do honestly apologize if the breadth of my knowledge was too vast, too encompassing for your convenience, but wisdom floweth from a man like a river. He does not direct where it begins or ends, but he has only the freedom to manuever in its narrow confines as it flows along its predetermined course. As such, the wisdom of Wyse has been imparted to me, and such, it flows from my pen to you.

Yet even so, I digress, for I have rowed down an unintended channel, and must return to the main point, lest I drfit too far along and ignorance or inqusitive sea turtles abscond with me. Such it is in our culture that we hang onto things of little value, and discard that of true value on a careless whim. Such it is now, that true pioneers of wisdom, true warriors of enlightment, who carry the sword of truth and the shield of courage fight losing battles in the search for answers. They do not fail of their own accord, mostly, but because they have no support, no one to turn to when the fires of persecution burn before them. Such it is with Wyse, and it is with those few among us who appreciate all that he offers to us as a people, as a society. We are cast aside like a morning lottery ticket. Yet those blind to these truths, often of their own selfish ends, were not able to look at that ticket that we are, and see quite clearly, the winning numbers.

---This message was edited on 08:10AM Sep 14, 2012---

Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu

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HarryPutter

Posts: 2931

Posted: 08:13AM Sep 14, 2012

Thank you for that eloquent and well-versed post, spid. But before I address it, I think we all need to step back here and look at what Wyse's introductory posts have been trying to articulate so we don't stray too far off topic.

wyse wrote in "Girls or Boys":

Which is better

wyse wrote in "Shapes and Colors":

Just talk about shapes and colors

wyse wrote in "Farmers or Teachers":

Now choose you answer carefully, and come up with a good explanation.

wyse wrote in "Peace and War":

Me, I believe war has different meanings, it goes on different levels. The scale are from arguments to full-fledged wars. Debating is also a way of constructively arguing therefore the chances of the world being entirely peaceful is slim. Full fledged was can hardly be stopped not to talk of the little arguments. There is a way of reducing full fledged wars but totally demolishing the policies of war that is were the problem lies. War can also be seen as disagreements. Disagreements lead to full fledged wars. What i'm saying is this.

Now read each of these posts carefully. Yes, they contain important content, but also note what they do not contain. It's rather clear to me that he is using what is known as the "Elenenchus" or the "Socratic Method". Instead of stating his own opinion directly and providing a substantive argument, he is leaving it open-ended. He wants to interrogate us to encourage critical thinking and make us come up with our own ideas.
Spider can be seen as a "Plato" in this sense because while he understands the wisdom of Wyse, he makes the fatal error that Socrates claims his accusers made in The Apology (his trial). Wyse's only claim is that he is aware of his own ignorance. What makes him more wise than the average person is that he accepts and knows he is ignorant. Whereas many of us claim to know things we do not truly know and understand, thus making us unwise.
"I thought to myself: I am wiser than this man; neither of us probably knows anything that is really good, but he thinks he has knowledge, when he has not, while I, having no knowledge, do not think I have."
― Apology

Plato was an astute student of Socrates, and while serving as the source of the philosophy of Socrates, he began claiming knowledge on concepts such as justice which he did not have sufficient understanding of. He mischaracterized Socrates in The Republic, which is why there is a contradiction in the character Plato uses with the earlier known Socates. Spider is mischaracterizing wyse similarly by claiming this knowledge and understanding, and perhaps I'm somewhat of an Aristotle for making a similar error in the Democrat/Republican analogy.

Regardless, Spider uses the metaphor of the river, which reminds me of the sophist philosophy of Heraclitus in which he said "No man ever steps in the same river twice". Socrates was a strong critic of the sophist philosophy, but he was also a critic of the traditional Athenian understanding (which sophists also were). However, this similarity in the criticism of traditional Greek thought made Socrates appear to be a sophist...in fact, that is one of the reasons he was accused and sentenced. The greeks used the same false dichotomies to sentence Socrates to death. The fact many of you reject Wyse's wisdom just makes me think you are also thinking in this dichotomy. It's also interesting that we were called "hipsters"...as if one could only be mainstream or not mainstream. Remember the teachings of Wyse...there are always more options!

---This message was edited on 08:20AM Sep 14, 2012---

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JQPublic

Posts: 1756

Posted: 08:36AM Sep 15, 2012

I love what you philosophers are doing here.

Unfortunately, I can't talk nearly as well as you. Um, I do not possess the ability to converse at the same level of eloquence that you display?

---This message was edited on 08:37AM Sep 15, 2012---

'An idea, like a ghost, must be spoken to a little before it will explain itself.' - Charles Dickens

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glowingredbob

Posts: 95

Posted: 09:20AM Sep 15, 2012

As much as I enjoy your philosophical discussions, they aren't about, say, ketchup vs. mustard, so I still won't be winning the lottery anytime soon.