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The Werewolf Game #2812

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Voting Discussion
This game finished in 4 rounds.

Discussion of Round #3

Round: 0  1  2  3  4  


Posted: 11:26PM Oct 14, 2012

Jake was the SEER

Good Luck

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 05:57:29---
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Posted: 11:30PM Oct 14, 2012

Well, I'm upset I wasn't on target with debc1. I don't even know why I bothered last round anyway, everyone remaining is experienced enough to have seen through that. Wasted effort.

I'm pretty sure the last wolf is celtichero or HarriDansker, probably Harri more so, so that's where my head is at right now. I'll wait until others have posted.

ka-ching is confirmed human, and Smithy and SirHar come across very human to me, much to Jake's disdain I am guessing.
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Posted: 02:07AM Oct 15, 2012

GA, you should try to defend yourself a bit better before you accuse me since you definitely look the most suspicious just based on the evidence alone.
Looking back your justifications for deb were way off since I'm pretty sure night timed out R1 by looking at the the last/first posts. So your accusation that she intentionally picked Cab to be eaten didn't even make sense. It was just a convenient excuse after your jake bait disappeared with his seer claim.
Also, celt always acts this way so I don't know what would stand out to you regarding him. Seems you're just pandering to the same people who trusted you last round, and looking to win the game by conveniently lining up celt and I as suspects. (which, once again, makes you look suspicious as hell )
Not to mention that you were in the competing majority against shooting Evi in R1...if Smithy can be necessarily cleared from his R1 activity, what does that say about your's?

I'll give you a chance to put up a proper defence before I proceed no need to spv since I assume jake was telling the truth

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 02:22:46---
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Posted: 03:20AM Oct 15, 2012

You know, I was kind of hoping you'd suspect me, Harry, since I know that you're probably one of the few people who nearly always can tell when I am human.

Harry, you honestly think the wolf didn't vote night one? That's just ridiculous. The wolf would've voted near the end of the round to ensure a night time out, so you can't attack me on my suspicions on debc1, especially considering 3 others joined me on the vote.

You're trying to tell me that my Jake bait disappeared with his Seer claim? Excuse me? What about your Jake bait?!

Nothing stands out to me about celtichero (hence why I suspect you over him). You and celt are my only suspicions since the other three are human to me. I'm lining the two of you since shooting the two of you will secure a human win.

But your last point is the most hilarious, Harry. You're telling me that I'm suspicious because I was in the competing majority against Evita in round one? Um, let's look back at that, shall we? Oh, that's right, I was inactive the entire round, and Evita chose to join my vote for celtichero, and I wasn't online at all to see this actions. Also, do you really think out of all people Evita would choose to join her wolf partner's vote? It's absurd you'd even bring this point up considering I had absolutely nothing to do with the resulting majority on celtichero.

Anyway, I knew that if you were human there'd be a big chance you would know, or at least suspect I was human too, since you know my game play rather well, but the fact you suspect me makes me suspect you even more.

Your lack of involvement in last round was very telling to begin with, Harry, as was your lack of involvement in round one, even though you were active both rounds. Last round I made a choice to have an impact on the round, and therefore pushed for a majority on debc1, but you, well you chose to stay out of anything once Jake had claimed Seer.

Before you tell me that I'm the most suspicious, go through your points why you think this and you wil realise you've completely fabricated them and that it comes across as you really grasping at straws.
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Posted: 03:58AM Oct 15, 2012

I'm also glad you chose to respond the way you did since you pulled the exact same card in your last game as wolf - "omg I cant believe someone might actually suspect me as wolf even though it makes clear sense". You should at least acknowledge that the evidence is somewhat damning.

That wolf must have some expert timing to get a vote in to make it appear that exactly 24 hours had past. I've never seen that happen so spot-on. And the others just joined the deb vote out of desperation to get out of the Jake majority so I can't exactly blame them 3.
Regarding my lack of involvement last round...I was gone all evening when that entire showdown happened so by the time I checked back in the majority was locked on deb thanks to you. I couldn't do anything so I just switched my vote off a clear.
Though it's almost been a pattern lately to just target deb when you don't have any clear option because she never does a good enough job defending herself. (no offense deb.. you usually end up being shot when someone targets you )
The Evi point could seem a bit weak, but you didn't move your vote off Evi so the possibility is open that you saw the tie and chose not to do anything about it. It's easy to avoid responsibility that way. And what Jake bait did I have, exactly? I was just pointing out how I thought he was human considering his R1 activity didn't fit his style at all. It's like calling you confidently clearing Smithy "Smithy bait"...

All you have are hunches and feelings, GA. And hunches and feelings are the real proverbial "straws" Like you whining that you are human and how obvious it should seem.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 04:00:17---
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Posted: 04:38AM Oct 15, 2012

I don't think I'm obviously human, I'm saying that to you, I should be obviously human since I know that you are good at reading me.

As for the Evita point, I wasn't ever online so there's no way I could have changed my vote, or deliberately kept the tie alive. I had already stated I wouldn't be active for the round so why are you trying to use round one as a reasoning for me being a wolf?

And the wolf only has to vote within the last 2 hours of night to result in a time out since the game delays night by several hours!

I'm honestly not a wolf, and in the off chance you are human being swayed by my suspicion on you, then I urge you to go reread last round and see that my posts aren't a wolf making a big hurrah and putting myself in the spotlight. Also, my interactions with Jake might be worth reading since they may make you believe in my humanity. But when it comes down to it, there are 4 others who will hopefully see my humanity! Smithy and ka-ching will hopefully have my back, and if not this will be the first time in over 60 games that I will be shot as a human...

Anyway, I have my first proper external tomorrow. Harry has failed to convince me of his humanity, all he has done is throw my suspicion on him back onto me, so I am logging my vote in for HarriDansker. I'll check this briefly in the morning but I have a morning exam so I can't promise much of an insight! Hopefully these posts are enough!
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Posted: 04:49AM Oct 15, 2012

...well, congratulations to the both of you for at least having a better defence than "I'm the seer".

First of all I refuse to look at when night rounds ended and when people logged on in order ot make a decision. I skipped over those bits in the posts so I'm not sure what the conclusions were, but seriously, even if it provides us a really useful clearing or a really damning piece of evidence where is the fun, challenge or excitement in just staring at timings in order to try to win the game?

Nobody stands out as particularly suspicious to me at the moment, which means I'm pretty open to reasoning from the both of you... Putter, as you probably have gathered by now, I frequently don't follow or agree with your lines of reasoning, so I'm going to need some clearer explanations from you if there is legitimate reason to suspect GA! What struck me though is that you always vehemently disagree with my often suggested point that wolves could work together in round 1 under cover of early game ignorance, yet now you are suggesting that Evi would have chosen to join her only partner's vote in round 1 rather than half a dozen other innocuous choices. This seems like contradiction in your reasoning. This seems too subtle and unimportant an act to be some sort of attempt at a clear by evi so I can't see what she would have gained from voting with her partner.

As GA said he had no intentional or knowing part in the competing majority so you can't really use that against him. I'm not really sure what you mean by GA's "jake bait" though, could you elaborate on that please? (My apologies if I'm just being slow or missed something obvious.)

"Instead of changing old quotes, make some original and make them famous" - mnkgyl
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Posted: 07:26AM Oct 15, 2012

the wolf only has to vote within the last 2 hours of night to result in a time out since the game delays night by several hours!

and this.
First of all I refuse to look at when night rounds ended and when people logged on in order to make a decision.

I can't wholeheartedly follow the Harri vote at all. The gist I got from you, Will, is his lack of involvement? I haven't seen anything truly abnormal of Harri all game.
Also, I wouldn't say the evidence against Will is damning, but it doesn't look good. Why would he be so sure Smithy is human if he weren't Seer and knew for certain (or a wolf and knew for certain)? That really bothers me. Aside from that Harri's right: Will's pulling the same card he did last game.

I feel comfortable with Smithy, still. Har we know nothing about - he's been in active for the last round.
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Posted: 08:34AM Oct 15, 2012

Ching as you're the only one we all know to be human your thoughts are pretty useful... what exactly "doesn't look good" against GA? I'm not asking this is an argumentative way, I just don't really see tot much to it.

What can we read into the whole failed Seer cover-up last round? Could have been an attempt by GA to look human, but then if that was his intention he probably would have mentioned it in his defence this round, which he did not do. The fact that Putter openly stated he believed Jake would seem a foolish thing to do as a human, given that the vote was moving away from Jake at that point so there was no need to defend him.

Ching is cleared, and most people seem in agreement that I'm down the order somewhat. Har hasn't posted since early round 1 so if we assume he's not following the game it's unlikely that the Seer would have gotten eaten this round. Celt hasn't posted much, as is standard, but Evi's choice of him as a competing majority in round 1 probably also pushes him down the order somewhat. (I know, could be an attempt to clear one or other, or Evi selecting a comparatively easy target to try to save herself, but the most probable explanation is Celt is human.) So that just leaves GA and Putter as our likely lads.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 08:40:19---

"Instead of changing old quotes, make some original and make them famous" - mnkgyl
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Posted: 10:43AM Oct 15, 2012

Lucky me being the cleared one. :/

Will was adamant you (Smithy) were human last round - as a human, it would bother me to be absolute on anything of that sort (even though I've already stated multiple times I think it's reasonable to say you're human). Will deflected to the deb vote first (cue Harry's point that, once targeted, deb rarely rises). He also seemed thoroughly convinced that Jake's claim was a fake - that logic gets complicated, so I'm not addressing it for now. haha I just don't see why a human would be that adamant (about anything, for that matter). Additionally, Harry's right in that he's doing the same thing he did last game. "I'm honestly a human; your logic is flawed."

It's down to Harry or GA for me, too, for the most part. I suppose since I was horribly duped by GA last game, I'm loathe to submit to the same fate again, hence my added guard against him, but Harry's logic does make some sense. I simply feel there may be more suspicion to GA than to Harry at the moment, considering what we've to work with.

As far as "Jake bait", I was assuming that meant the methods of trying to woo Jake over to one's side? I didn't investigate that very thoroughly, either, to be honest.

I have class until about 3:30. I'll be back around then to look at where we are and finally place a vote.
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Posted: 12:58PM Oct 15, 2012

GA didn't really disbelieve Jake's claim (why would he assume a fake seer claim comes from a human?!), he was just trying to confuse the issue to stop Jake getting eaten OR trying to give us the impression he was doing that to make himself look human. I guess him labeling me as human is a little suspect, but I just assumed it was because he played in both of the other two games where my lucky blind shots lead to people being suspicious of me, so he would have seen my defences to the effect of it being a dumb strategy so would know it's something I wouldn't do. Does he normally use such certain language or is this an anomaly? (If the latter then I agree it's suspicious.)

It's all rather academic really as I highly doubt Celt or Har will leap in with some barnstorming input and change us from the "GA or Putter" conclusion. Given you will probably be the one eaten this round I suppose I should be gentlemanly and let you have your choice of the two for this round.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I did even point out a couple games ago that the best way to get me on your side is to defend me logically (during the game that devious ching was doing just that), GA might well be the sort of player that remembers something like that.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 13:03:58---

"Instead of changing old quotes, make some original and make them famous" - mnkgyl
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Posted: 01:30PM Oct 15, 2012

I listed all my reasons I think GA is suspicious. I wouldn't say it makes it 100% but he's just the most likely candidate given his activity and his history. I'm going to lock my vote in on him now anyway.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 13:31:13---
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Posted: 02:32PM Oct 15, 2012

Wow, how could you guys have missed the point of my posts last round so much?

I was angry Jake had claimed Seer so openly so in an attempt to save him I was trying to subtly claim Seer myself and Smithy was my "divination" so I had to pretend like I knew he was human. I chose Smithy as my divination because I had previously stated I thought he was human, so it fit in with my posts.

I am honestly a human and right now it seems the reason you don't trust me is because you so greatly misjudged my intentions last round. So if you understand what last round was all about, hopefully you'll now be able to trust my humanity and go for Harry who is really feeding off your indecisiveness.

Vote for Harry!

EDIT: Notice how Harry is making him come across like he isn't sold on me, so that when I'm shot and revealed human he can try squirm out of suspicion next round. SHOOT HARRY! He is the last wolf! If you honestly still think I'm a better candidate than Harry for wolf, then you really have no hope...

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 14:44:36---
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Posted: 02:44PM Oct 15, 2012

Oh yeah, I knew what you were trying with the double-fake Seer claim last round but forgot that was why you were so "sure" of my ID. This game is messing with my brain a little.

I'm still finding myself trusting GA a little more. I swear it's that darn avi.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 14:44:58---

"Instead of changing old quotes, make some original and make them famous" - mnkgyl
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Posted: 03:08PM Oct 15, 2012

GreenApples27 wrote:
Notice how Harry is making him come across like he isn't sold on me, so that when I'm shot and revealed human he can try squirm out of suspicion next round. SHOOT HARRY! He is the last wolf! If you honestly still think I'm a better candidate than Harry for wolf, then you really have no hope...

I was conceding your point that there was a possibility that you were human as you mentioned earlier in the round since there are some inconsistencies. I'm just saying you're the most likely person given your history and activity so you're our best shot.

Now who's fabricating evidence? Just read LH's game. He's pulling the exact same thing without presenting any real facts to back him up.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 15:10:37---
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Posted: 08:31PM Oct 15, 2012

GUYS. Place a vote in! Harry is the wolf, and I am worried the computer will shoot alphabetically which will mean I'm the one who gets shot.

I'm not pulling the exact same thing as my game with LH? What are you on about? I wouldn't be so adamant about someone if I was a wolf. Being certain about something is the downfall for a wolf, and look how Harry isn't pushing too hard on me! He's giving himself leeway.

Please, please, please put a vote in for Harry! You will not regret it! I am a human!
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Posted: 09:07PM Oct 15, 2012

It's obvious that one of you has to be a wolf, so who gets shot doesn't really matter as the game should be just about won anyways.

I'm just an ordinary average guy with nothing to lose.
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Posted: 09:10PM Oct 15, 2012

Then can you please vote for Harry, celtic? Do you honestly not see any humanness from me at all?

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 21:12:26---
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Posted: 09:24PM Oct 15, 2012

haha Ugh, this begging is tugging at my sympathy cords so bad, Will. I knew you were trying to claim Seer - and I pretty much bought it - but I don't... wait. I just got it. Backing up.
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Posted: 09:27PM Oct 15, 2012

I don't meant to beg, it's just I hate being shot as a human, and even more so when I have got the last wolf anyway! Vote for Harry, it is not only the right choice, but the most sensible! I've made probably around twice as much posts than him, so if the game went to final four, there's more to look at on me, meaning more to base a decision off next round. But it won't go to next round if you vote Harry!
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Posted: 10:28PM Oct 15, 2012

i'm sorry, Will, I can't. Voting GA. I'm tired. Goodnight.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 22:32:50---
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Posted: 10:29PM Oct 15, 2012

Now you're just making stuff up GA this is hilarious. A wolf is definitely certain because they know identities...uncertainty is the result of ignorance ie a human trait. This is just basic logic.

Now what you have at your disposal is whiny persistence. You're even trying to get Celt to turn on me this round, then after I get shot you're going to turn on him with another "oops" you got the best of the humans last game by persistently pushing them as you are now but you can only pull the same trick so many times.
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Posted: 10:33PM Oct 15, 2012

Ga even lied about the alphabetical shooting to push you into voting me . Someone with 150 games under their belt would know that isn't true. Even check Jams game to see that didn't work the previous round. I don't know how much evidence i need to show

Ok finally

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 22:35:05---
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Posted: 10:35PM Oct 15, 2012

What have I made up, Harry? You keep saying I'm making things up, but tell me what I've made up?

When I say you're uncertain, I'm saying you're pretending to be uncertain, because that's the only thing you can afford to be considering you have to shoot two humans for the win. If you were certain about someone being a wolf, you'd end up losing as once you've shot them, you're left with nothing.

You can use as many laughing faces as you want, but it doesn't make you human.

THANK YOU MJ. I am human and you will not regret this!

EDIT: MJ. WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU DOING. Look at who Smithy suspected! He says he buys my humanity! If you are so unsure of who the wolf is, at least vote for the person Smithy would've voted if he had managed to get on!

I am honestly a human! Why is this so hard for you to see, MJ?!

MJ, look at what Harry is doing! He is setting up both me and celtichero to be shot! I am only going after Harry. Harry is preempting both these rounds, exactly what a wolf would do! Do not go to sleep until your vote is changed to Harry. I am deadly serious!

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 22:39:00---
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Posted: 10:41PM Oct 15, 2012

Fine. If it's not Harry, I trust Smithy to take it from here. haha Your pleadings are just... they'll haunt my sleep. *shudders*

p.s. I better get a resounding "i love you" out of you, william.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 22:42:04---
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Posted: 10:42PM Oct 15, 2012

THANK YOU MJ. Wow, you scared me so much just then. I apologise for my serious, demanding tone, but it'll get us the win so it won't hurt in the long run!

EDIT: I love you.

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 22:43:23---
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Posted: 10:44PM Oct 15, 2012

You're the one feigning certainty because that is your only real defense here your logic is basically that you're not a wolf and therefore I am one. My logic is that you're intentionally deceiving and pressuring people using your well known wolf tactics, and therefore you are one. Simply saying its obvious you're human with a pout isn't a sufficient defense.

An damn iPad.....well hopefully Celt or smithy come on your persistence may win over females but the male mind is only penetrable to logic. I learned this in the Himalayas when we had two people, a man and a woman standing atop a hill. Each competitor had to climb the hill in an hour. each would strive to come up the hill and only the persistent competitors could reach the top. If the competitor reached the top in time, they got great amounts of respect from the male elder. However one took longer than an hour and only received praise from the females for their effort.

You are the slow man up the hill, GA. But perhaps there are no male elders left for me to convince however you will be pushed off the hill next round. This I promise you

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 22:51:19---
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Posted: 10:53PM Oct 15, 2012

I am not feigning certainty - I came to the conclusion by clearing everyone else that it was you or celtichero, and I felt it was more likely you due to Evita voting celtichero, so I suspected you, and waited to see if you felt I was human, which if you were human I was convinced you would do so, and when you suspected me back, it just confirmed what I already thought. Also, how is certainty right now that you're a wolf going to get me the win? What would I do next round when you're revealed human? I have absolutely nothing, and it's too much of a risk to go down the reverse psychology route and hope that this point would bring me to the end of the game, and get celtichero shot.

Also, you say there's are my known wolf tactics, but they aren't at all? I know better than anyone how I am when I am a wolf, and this is definitely not one of my wolf tactics. I barely ever pressure people when I am a wolf, since I usually feel sick if I guilt trip anyone even when I'm human, let alone do it when I'm a wolf.
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Posted: 10:59PM Oct 15, 2012

If you could baselessly convince people off you this round, it'll be simple to do next round since you just feed off their sympathies intend of appealing to their intellect.

I even have your opening post prepared for you next round so you don't need to bother with the effort of making one

Posted: 05:26AM Oct 9, 2012
My two suspects are both human and both dead. Get out. (what a coincidence....again )

Very quick night which is very good, thank you wolves! I'll wait for more posts and it's very interesting that the wolves chose Kaching to eat!

---This message was edited on 2012-10-15 23:00:18---
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Posted: 11:25PM Oct 15, 2012

So how about them Vikings?
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