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The Werewolf Game #2922

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This game is moderated by mocha613. Please read the rules and contact the moderator with any questions or concerns about this game.

Voting Discussion
This game finished in 7 rounds.

Discussion of Round #2

Round: 0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  

AuthorMessage
kmrutledgetth


Posted: 09:11PM Jun 10, 2013

Seymour has recently obtained a mysterious plant that looks like a large venus flytrap. While he was browsing the wholesale flower district, a sudden eclipse of the sun occurred, and when the light returned, the weird plant had appeared ("Da-Doo"). Seymour is secretly in love with Audrey and names the plant Audrey II in her honor.


Yesterday, I cast both Nicats and Jervis in the roles of the homeless bums. They should do a great job.


In other news, I'd like to remind you that round 2 is posted in your rehearsal groups. Please make sure you take a look and watch list it so you know when things happen.

And now, for your song of the round...


Da-Doo
[SEYMOUR]
Da-doo,
I was walkin' in the wholesale flower district that day
Shoop da-doo,
and I passed by this place where this old Chinese man
Chang da-doo
he sometimes sells me weird and exotic cuttings,
Snip da-doo,
'cause he knows, you see, that strange plants are my hobby.
Da da da da da da-doo.

He didn't have anything unusual there that day.

Nope, da-doo,
so I was just about to, ya know, walk on by,
Good for you,
when suddenly,
Da doo
and without warning, there was this total eclipse of the sun.

It got very dark and there was this strange
sound like something from another world.
Da-doo,
And when the light came back this weird plant was just sitting there,

whoop-see-doo
just, you know, stuck in, among the zinnias.
Audrey Two.
I coulda sworn it hadn't been there before,
but the old Chinese man sold it to me anyways,
for a dollar ninety-five.
Sha la la, la la la, la la la loo.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-10 21:36:46---

The faster I type in my password, the more secret agent-y I feel.
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kmrutledgetth


Posted: 09:12PM Jun 10, 2013

Alright round 2!!! Gonna randomly vote for now, because I may not be able to get on again today.

The faster I type in my password, the more secret agent-y I feel.
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slammngirl92*us


Posted: 10:18PM Jun 10, 2013

Im going to also randomly vote until more people come on. Good night.

Fearless.
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buu441Ain


Posted: 05:23AM Jun 11, 2013

doesn't look the night timed out. i guess that means all the favored actors are active and showing up at work. can't read much into the jervis eating, so will place a random SPV for now.

Leo: Hold on. This is gonna hurt. Coach Hedge: I was BORN for HURT!!
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Skybet*gb


Posted: 06:57AM Jun 11, 2013

Because nicats and jervis were cast as homeless bums, am I to take from that that they were human? IDs would be nice, as it will give me a position to proceed from.

I have a few things I want to address from last round...

And to clear up the SPV issue, it is essential. The seer must vote to shoot someone in order to make a divination. It is the humans responsibility to place a vote to hide the seer amongst them. If several humans refuse to place a vote, then the wolves have a narrowed list of seer suspects, which is not a good thing for the humans. SPV is not a myth and must be implemented. If you fail to cover the seer then you aren't a very useful human.

Limerick wrote:
That said, I am not a fan of SPV votes at the end of round 5, for instance.

Unfortunately, if the seer is still around in round 5, SPV is still necessary. An SPV is your primary motivation to place a vote, however it doesn't need to be a "random" vote, these are two very different things.

Limerick wrote:
And MoO isn't exactly a wolf's favourite thing either... Right now, only real vote that is potentially revealing is Skybet, but... It is a bit hard to read right now.

An MoO shouldn't be any player's favourite thing. There is absolutely nothing to be learned from an MoO, so it is a total waste of a round. Majorities are the only way we can see how people react to it by trying to save that player, or pushing them further into the quagmire. I put krum in a maj last round, and a few players leapt to her defence and had it in for nicats. This is potentially revealing, where a MoO would have given us none of that.

Limerick wrote:
So far, I find kmr an unlikely candidate for wolf due to her unsureness about who to vote for

Directly defending krum? I find this, along with the majority of your post highly suspicious.

Limerick wrote:
I don't buy the logic against an MoO vote. The only ones it leaves particularly vulnerable are the wolves

This is not true at all. By placing another player in a majority from an MoO the 20% chance of shooting a wolf remains the same. You must understand the pitfalls of round one MoO.

Anyway. I will place my SPV until I get my ID question answered.


We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 07:53AM Jun 11, 2013

From round 0:

Revealing ID's: I will NOT be revealing ID's, so if this is going to bother you, please do not sign up. I will not take discussion on this.


"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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FaithDushkuAus


Posted: 08:02AM Jun 11, 2013

Skybet wrote:

And to clear up the SPV issue, it is essential. The seer must vote to shoot someone in order to make a divination. It is the humans responsibility to place a vote to hide the seer amongst them. If several humans refuse to place a vote, then the wolves have a narrowed list of seer suspects, which is not a good thing for the humans. SPV is not a myth and must be implemented. If you fail to cover the seer then you aren't a very useful human.


I understand that the Seer must vote to shoot someone... However, what I've been told, the Seer has an option to Divine someone, and a separate option to shoot someone... So the Seer could potentially vote with the majority (if desired) so they're "hidden", while at the same time, divining someone completely different than who they voted for...

Now, I've never been a Seer before, so anyone who has been, please feel free to jump into this discussion...

But that was the argument made in my last (or the one before that) WW game...

As for how the votes are going... I'm starting to see both sides of the "suspicious" behavior... Skybet's either really good at covering himself, or he's a useful human who'll help us find our wolves.... I haven't played with you enough to know your style, but I'm about 50/50 right now...


Five-by-Five...
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dcf525*


Posted: 08:05AM Jun 11, 2013

I have one or two actrs in mind who seem a little suspicious. For now, I will nuy into Skybet's logic and vote not so randomly...

Sorry, nothing to see here folks, keep moving.
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Skybet*gb


Posted: 08:11AM Jun 11, 2013

mocha613 wrote:
From round 0:

Revealing ID's: I will NOT be revealing ID's, so if this is going to bother you, please do not sign up. I will not take discussion on this.

Thanks mocha, I forgot you said that in the game description, forgive me.


We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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bradon182001*us


Posted: 08:16AM Jun 11, 2013

FaithDushku wrote:
Skybet wrote:

And to clear up the SPV issue, it is essential. The seer must vote to shoot someone in order to make a divination. It is the humans responsibility to place a vote to hide the seer amongst them. If several humans refuse to place a vote, then the wolves have a narrowed list of seer suspects, which is not a good thing for the humans. SPV is not a myth and must be implemented. If you fail to cover the seer then you aren't a very useful human.


I understand that the Seer must vote to shoot someone... However, what I've been told, the Seer has an option to Divine someone, and a separate option to shoot someone... So the Seer could potentially vote with the majority (if desired) so they're "hidden", while at the same time, divining someone completely different than who they voted for...

Now, I've never been a Seer before, so anyone who has been, please feel free to jump into this discussion...

But that was the argument made in my last (or the one before that) WW game...

As for how the votes are going... I'm starting to see both sides of the "suspicious" behavior... Skybet's either really good at covering himself, or he's a useful human who'll help us find our wolves.... I haven't played with you enough to know your style, but I'm about 50/50 right now...


Having been a Seer in a recent game, I can assure you that the Seer can NOT divine the same person they vote for during the day round. The Game will not allow it, the selection is deleted. I know because I tried.

The object of the SPV is not to prevent the Seer from voting with or against the majority, it's purpose is to provide a shield as in there is safety in numbers, the actual vote itself is irrelevant .Think about it, if everyone chooses to wait until the last minute to vote, if you were the Seer and had to work, for example and the only time you had to vote was at the beginning of the round, nine times out of ten you would not dare vote and be that sore thumb sticking out for most of the game. That's the purpose of the SPV and anyone who refuses to vote to protect the Seer should be considered suspect, in my opinion.


Edit: Having said that, will again SPV for froggy until more people have posted.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 08:20:47---

Want to try a new game? JOIN "1 V 100" TALK BOX. .Game 37 is in progress.
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El-ahrairah


Posted: 08:28AM Jun 11, 2013

I'm with Skybet as far as suspicion goes. Limerick's posts have seemed odd so far, to say the least. He seems to be fabricating evidence and drawing conclusions based upon Round One uncertainties when - let's face it - who in Round One does have a clear idea who to vote for? I, myself, tend to vote off inactives in round one, because there is little to nothing upon which to base an educated guess.

That being said, I will hold my vote for the time being, and will wait for more to develop before making a decision.
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 08:30AM Jun 11, 2013

No problem, Skybet, I know that anymore, this is common practice in wolf games, and so decided to head the discussion off at the pass, rather than have people upset once they got into a game (which has happened in every game I've played in so far since being back). I believe that it should be the other way around, that mods should post deviations FROM the basic rules (like saying they will be ID'ing) rather than having to say what they will not be doing, but that is another point for another day.

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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Skybet*gb


Posted: 08:38AM Jun 11, 2013

Yes, I don't want this game to dissolve into an SPV and game ID debate.

Let's please stay on topic guys, and save the SPV debate for another day, but trust me for now that it is important.

I'm switching my vote to krum.


We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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shaidar9haran*us


Posted: 09:26AM Jun 11, 2013

Limerick has definitely been the most suspicious to me, there is nothing to go on on round 1 and rarely anything to actually draw suspicion from. However, in my experience those who type the long posts and make the huge arguments are those who truly feel involved and emotional about the game and normally are helpful humans. But Limerick is an experienced player and knows that that would draw suspicion. Right now I'm leaning towards voting for him, as it just seems like odd behavior.
tuku=human
As for the seer thing, its more about creating a protective disguise for the seer, since the seer needs to vote to log a divination, thus they tend to be one of the first to vote and vote randomly, to protect this we all SPV and vote randomly so the wolves can't tell who the seer is there's nothing wrong with this strategy, but as we move further into the game it should be less about SPV and more about suspicions and allowing the seer to jump on those.
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buu441Ain


Posted: 10:23AM Jun 11, 2013

I see that everyone is posting their suspicions on limerick, but only one has voted accordingly so far. are you waiting for them to present their defence?
reading everything posted so far, i kinda have to agree that limerick has been behaving suspiciously. i didn't pay much attention to the end of round1 as i was kinda busy with stuff again, so didn't have much to say at the beginning.
edit: changing vote to limerick.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 10:23:34---

Leo: Hold on. This is gonna hurt. Coach Hedge: I was BORN for HURT!!
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El-ahrairah


Posted: 10:30AM Jun 11, 2013

Yes, buu, that's correct. Discounting the SPV argument, only 5 people have posted actual input regarding the game out of the 13 remaining. Aside from Limerick's defense, I would like to see what some of the others have to say. Although, it's likely that my vote will end up going to him regardless.
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Limerickus


Posted: 10:41AM Jun 11, 2013

Haha, I am a vastly experienced player in my 12th game =p I am probably one of the least experienced here actually xD

That said, I find that kind of funny, since I always post like that, and honestly, regardless of how experienced I get, that isn't changing, it's fun to analyze things and pick things apart, and I refuse to play and not have fun, just like my poem as a wolf a couple games ago... honestly, as much as I hate to admit it, I didn't even think about the fact that it would draw suspicion, but, it is unlikely I would have changed it if it had. I am here to have fun, to unwind, to talk. Also, making such a post gets people talking even if it is about shooting me xD I prefer getting shot in an active game talking about worthwhile topics to surviving to round 7 in a game talking about SPV votes =p

1739, 1767, 1778, 2143, 2882, 2887, 2892, 2894, 2903, 2907, 2913 are my past games if anyone honestly feels me to be off.

As far as what you said Sky, what I was saying about the MoO vote, is that a MoO vote in round 1 is 1 in 5 to hit a wolf. A wolf creating a majority of 2 turns it from 1 in 5 to 0% chance. They can even create multiple majorities of 2. Also, when responding to an existing majority that is against a wolf, they can fairly easily make another majority of 2 which just makes it less likely the wolfish one will be chosen. While I sort of understand the idea that majorities will cause you to learn more, and they kind of do, I still am of the opinion you get more out of the individual's logic as to why they are doing things, the voting patterns are just secondary.

As for your post El, while I admit I did miss your two posts, and honestly, not sure how... I was not "fabricating evidence". That would be rather silly to do when other readers would be reading the posts above mine :/

Honestly, if anything the fact that you are harping so hard on that fairly obvious mistake is more suspicious to me. But that said, anyone truly suspicious of me, go ahead and vote for me, I am going to keep analyzing until I die.

To update the previously incorrect suspicious...

jervis' explanation makes sense, as I was, based on that logic, the most inactive. El's also makes sense, though, I am still relatively unhappy that nicats was shot, I think it is unlikely that she was a wolf, there wasn't enough activity around it, but then, it is uncommon to get a wolf first round anyway.

For right now, my vote goes to El. I am just not buying your logic from what I know of you. I admit again that I have little to go off of in round 1, but, you seem to be totally grasping at straws which isn't like you at all.
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TanCWA


Posted: 10:49AM Jun 11, 2013

FaithDushku wrote:
Skybet wrote:

And to clear up the SPV issue, it is essential. The seer must vote to shoot someone in order to make a divination. It is the humans responsibility to place a vote to hide the seer amongst them. If several humans refuse to place a vote, then the wolves have a narrowed list of seer suspects, which is not a good thing for the humans. SPV is not a myth and must be implemented. If you fail to cover the seer then you aren't a very useful human.


I understand that the Seer must vote to shoot someone... However, what I've been told, the Seer has an option to Divine someone, and a separate option to shoot someone... So the Seer could potentially vote with the majority (if desired) so they're "hidden", while at the same time, divining someone completely different than who they voted for...


What happen if you are the SM is this:

You will have two list, one asking you who you want to cast, much like what all of us have, and another one asking you who you want to check. HOWEVER, there will only be one button for you to click on the submit your options. Hence, the seer HAVE to vote in order to check.


Anyway, I really cannot tell who is suspicious to me as a favored, so I will randomly vote for someone that is not in the majority.

P.S. I DO AGREE with Skybet that SPV is important as of now.


what is sense??and if i am not making sense, then why i say it?? I SAY IT COZ IT MAKE SENSE TO ME BUT WHY IT DON'T MAKE SENSE TO YOU????????? sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!
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El-ahrairah


Posted: 11:11AM Jun 11, 2013

I may as well go ahead and place my vote. I'm fairly sure of where it's going, and everyone else probably is, too.
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bradon182001*us


Posted: 11:12AM Jun 11, 2013

Gotta post this while it is fresh in my mind,regarding Limerick's long analytical posts. I've only played in one or two games with him and I believe both times I was a wolf so his posts were definitely a threat to me as a wolf. He is correct when he says he makes these long, well thought out posts so as far as I can tell his game play in this game thus far is not suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him, just pointing out what I have observed in past games. I would imagine he would play the same whether he was human or wolf, but I have no previous experience with him when he was a wolf.

Right now I'm more inclined to go with a non-voter and keep up with the posts made by the actives. The ones I'm particularly inclined to suspect are those who refuse to vote until the last minute. Wolves like to let the humans decide and then jump in at the last minute to either bandwagon or change a majority that may exist. However, I would like to point out that those of you who are from the "old school" of werewolf will remain lower on my list of suspects simply because you weren't here when the SPVoting was born, but continued reluctance to accept the importance of Seer protection will definitely get my attention.


Want to try a new game? JOIN "1 V 100" TALK BOX. .Game 37 is in progress.
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froggyggAus


Posted: 11:16AM Jun 11, 2013

Took me a while to read all the posts so far. Lots of good points made.

I also feel that the SPV is important - especially in the early rounds where no one has much to go on as to the identity of the wolves. Even though it is usually a few rounds before the Seer can start trying to divulge the identities of those they have already divined, those divined identities are very crucial to how we vote.

That said, for now I'm also placing a SPV but I do not want to join a majority at this point. My vote is going to tukuwakatiki who has no votes at this point.


SMILE and people will wonder what you are up to!
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FaithDushkuAus


Posted: 01:47PM Jun 11, 2013

Looks like we have a small majority going again...

I've played a few games with Limerick since I've been back (had not played in YEARS, then have played a few since I've been back - thus all the SPV confusion)... But what I know about Limerick's game play (from my games):

1) He's wordy
2) He gets eaten early a lot, because he's good at analysis (and is very wordy)

I get eaten a lot or suspected a lot (in WTB) because I'm wordy (sometimes), but I'm not nearly as wordy as Limerick is...

What I find suspicious from last round was that El-ahrairah basically said that he didn't see nicats lack of posting details as a "wolfish" thing, but he (she?) changed his/her vote to nicats anyway... Why would you purposefully create a majority vote for someone who you just said didn't come off as wolfish to you?

So my vote this round is for El-ahrairah....


Five-by-Five...
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Skybet*gb


Posted: 02:05PM Jun 11, 2013

Switching to Lim.

He's the best shot I can see this round.


We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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Limerickus


Posted: 02:19PM Jun 11, 2013

Some numbers:

(2/10)(1/ = 1/40 (WW)
(2/10)(7/(1/6) = 7/240 (WHW)
(2/10)(7/(5/6)(1/4) = 7/192 (WHHW)
(8/10)(2/(1/6) = 1/30 (HWW)
(8/10)(2/(5/6)(1/4) = 1/24 (HWHW)
(8/10)(6/(2/6)(1/4) = 1/20 (HHWW)

This represents all losing outcomes for the wolves in a 10 person game where all votes are at random.
Adding these together... you get 69/320. Taking that from 1 to get the odds of a human victory where all votes are cast at random, you get 251/320.

This is a staggering 78.4375% chance of a wolf victory.

I haven't done the math for a 15 person game, but, the numbers would most likely be similar, just more involved.

This is with the wolves just sitting back and doing nothing.

78% chance.

You sit here and complain about how there is nothing to go on.

78% chance.

We have to find something to go on. What do you think is going to happen? Someone is going to jump out and say "I'm a wolf"?

I know there isn't much, and I am not claiming to be able to build a solid case against people most of the time in round one, but, you better BET I am going to rip every post to shreds and try to find something. I could sit here and keep all my analysis to myself, frankly, it makes me a less tempting target to the wolves. But, is that really what you want me to do? I lay it all out for everyone to see. I'll admit my analysis faults when I make them, but please attack the points, not the fact that I am talking...

If we don't talk... 78%...

We need to rationalize, and I am of the opinion that laying out that rationalization is going to result in a stronger human base than it would otherwise.

You talk of shooting inactives, then target me for being too active? Really?

I am sorry I missed your posts... I admit it, I wasn't careful enough, what do you want?

78%...

You do realise that by far one of the most effective wolf strategies in this game is to stay relatively in the background, out of sight, out of mind. Making a couple posts to be not shot as inactive, but never sticking your neck out. Is that really what you guys think this should become? I am not going to make this a political platform, but really...

Sorry if I seem a bit miffed by all this, but I really feel the game should be decided more than by a word count script on a webpage. If you want to vote for me, vote for me, I am not offended by receiving votes. If you want to attack my posts, attack them, again, I'm fine. But to simply attack me from adopting what I believe to be the ONLY viable strategy to get the wolves down from their 78% pedestal, and you can't deny it gets people talking... I just don't get it...

I am going to do what I do each game, generally, I don't even LOOK at my identity until it becomes time to vote in round 1. There simply isn't a need. So at the time my first post was written, I didn't even know my identity. How do you exactly find it suspicious that I wrote what I did when I hadn't even looked at my identity, hmm? I obviously can't claim this for my second post, and again, I will admit to missing your posts... and that was pretty bad, but... really? Are you going after me simply because I missed your posts? That so clearly makes me a wolf... *sigh*

I suppose I am pretty much doomed now, get two more and I'll vote myself to end this. But I really hope some of you take the time to even think about my posts. And also how difficult out of 13 remaining it is to get 4 votes with no wolves supporting the votes...
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El-ahrairah


Posted: 02:41PM Jun 11, 2013

On the other hand, nicats voted but has been the only one of us to have said nary a word. I consider it a courtesy, even if only SPV'ing, to take a moment to let everyone know that you're here. For her not to have done so bothers me more than not voting at all.


That was my post regarding my vote for nicats in round 1. I stated my issue with her not posting, and that would've gone for anyone who did (or didn't do) the same. I also re-stated this round that I tend to gun for inactives at the beginning of the game.

And Limerick, while many of us have mentioned that your posts are lengthy, I don't think that any of us is voting you for precisely that reason. It's -what- you're posting, not -that- you're posting. At least, that's my reasoning. It also has nothing to do with the fact that you didn't see my post before. I only brought that up because you alluded to my switching my vote without posting, which was due to you being busy composing your own at the time of my post.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 14:41:50---
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slammngirl92*us


Posted: 03:06PM Jun 11, 2013

Limerick, why did you exactly say an SPV is bad? You used it before (only wolves are against the seer) and its pretty necessary... I don't know why you would not be in favor for it or at least act like you were. That's what makes you suspicious, but if you have a good idea of why you were against it, then that is a different story and I would like to hear it.

At this point, my vote goes to limerick, and since it is round two, no one else stands out at this very moment.


Fearless.
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Skybet*gb


Posted: 03:08PM Jun 11, 2013

I fail to see anyone who has said "I'm randomly placing a vote for Limerick" so I don't see why your probability calculations are relevant. Also, you're not taking into account the seer, which bolsters the humans chances significantly.

Also, I don't see anyone who has said "I'm voting for Limerick because he has said the most/talk a lot", which also renders your other defence null. The content is always what is paid attention to, not the quantity.

Your posts are just stinking of desperation at the moment which isn't a good sign. Showing your old games, for example.

We all learn how to improve in these games, and if you find you are being suspected a lot by fellow humans just for being wordy, then maybe a better tactic might be trying to be a bit more succinct and articulate.


We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 03:21PM Jun 11, 2013

I can see tensions are starting to get high as the pressure of auditions is beginning to take its toll. Please remember that we are ALL part of the cast and are all important to the production of this musical. (*said in my best director voice*)

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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Limerickus


Posted: 03:50PM Jun 11, 2013

Honestly, I think I am done. I have put in a vote for myself. Now it is even clear that people aren't even reading my posts. So why bother play?

Limerick wrote:

As for votes, to my knowledge, the Seer has to vote in order to divine, but who they vote for is unrelated to who they divine. The concept of an SPV stems from this. Let's say for instance, the Seer is on at the beginning of the round and is unsure whether they will be back. They are going to be, by necessity, more urgent about placing a vote, especially in round 1, because they will lose a divination if they don't vote. Thus, logically speaking, the first people to vote are relatively more likely to be the seer. Not much, hopefully, because hopefully most people can get back and this doesn't even matter. But an SPV causes early votes in the round to cover this and, overall, encourages everyone to vote early. Honestly, it doesn't bother me too much, I will usually do it in the early stages because it doesn't hurt and my vote is always subject to change. My SPV is never locked in. So, honestly, I am a fan of the concept. That said, I am not a fan of SPV votes at the end of round 5, for instance. Even at the end of round 1 really, I am hoping people take the time to figure things out a bit.


Emphasis mine. I am, and have always been in favor of SPV votes. As mentioned above, I am only concerned when all a player does is say SPV vote for.. And then never comes back to reconsider their vote, sits there and says "There is no information to go on!" For the whole game. People who use SPV votes as an excuse.

But seriously, you should vote me. At this point I am simply dangerously close to not caring anymore. And I am friends with several players in this game, so that is not good. I just have yet to see a single use of quotes other than Skybet's that indicates anyone is doing anything more than just random speculation. With my vote, 6 votes out a total of 10 (possibly 11 if you really are convinced Nicats was a wolf) human votes are going to me. The equivalent of a WTB game ending in the second round, over 50% of the vote, how often does that really happen?) few of you are even making sense. You are pushing a vote on an early round with almost a quarter of the game remaining. Again, I am sorry if any of you feel I am being unfair. I am just done. I could defend myself if anyone would even point to a line you were bothered by like I did with Slammn, but, as is...
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FaithDushkuAus


Posted: 03:50PM Jun 11, 2013

El-ahrairah wrote:
On the other hand, nicats voted but has been the only one of us to have said nary a word. I consider it a courtesy, even if only SPV'ing, to take a moment to let everyone know that you're here. For her not to have done so bothers me more than not voting at all.


That was my post regarding my vote for nicats in round 1. I stated my issue with her not posting, and that would've gone for anyone who did (or didn't do) the same. I also re-stated this round that I tend to gun for inactives at the beginning of the game.


I saw your post... But nicats did post at the beginning of the Round... She was the third one to post (not including the Mod) and she said " whoo whoo...time to get my acting on! "

Granted, she was more in character and less "SPV for so and so" or "random vote", which is what most people did... But she did vote... And she posted... In fact, she voted for you... And then you helped to get her shot... I'm just saying...

In a game where we have NOTHING to go on yet (so we say)... I'm just sharing my own personal thoughts on why I would find you suspicious... That's all... You may very well be a human... But there's not a lot to go on now, so that's my reasoning...

Doesn't matter at the moment anyway, as it looks like Limerick will most likely be shot... But since a lot of this game so far has been A) Random voting, B) SPV voting, C) Arguing about SPV voting, and D) Fighting with Limerick for posting long lengthy messages...

I thought I'd post my thoughts...

Personally, I'm always weary of people who add to a majority... Not overall... But those who take it from a tie to a majority, when everyone has like 1 vote....

Because someone earlier said it best... Some wolves (not all) tend to hang back, and just help steer the vote... Cuz the person who starts the vote (for a specific person) is rarely a Wolf...

And yes, Director Mocha... We should all relax a bit... Just a play, people... We can't all play Seymour...

Oh, and Limerick... I was the Boss in a WTB game that ended in the 2nd round... LOL... It was SOO BAD... But I was wordy and spoke like I do in posts in my memo, and they got me... But then in the very next game I was Boss again, and played it much better (and we won!)... But yeah... Rare... But it happens... I hang my head in shame over that game...


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 15:53:07---

Five-by-Five...
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Limerickus


Posted: 04:12PM Jun 11, 2013

I know what you're saying Skybet, but I refuse to change who I am for the sake of a game. I talk as I talk, I am not going to talk different just to avoid votes. Not that I am totally against changing writing styles for prompts and the like, but I come here to relax, have fun, and enjoy the mental challenge, not to try to trick everyone by how I cleverly change my writing style. It just isn't me.

And if you have a single post that demonstrates an attack on the content of the post other than El's covered post, I would seriously appreciate it, if only to defuse some of this frustration...

Honestly, in my current mood, I sadly hope that the vote ends soon, before I really go off on someone. It's kind of ridiculous really, trust is one of the most important things to me, and while I know that TWG is not a place to build trust... To have what basically feels to be ad hominem attacks used against me without even approaching my individual statements, it just eats at me. I'll be fine though, and I'm sorry for everything, I wish everyone the best.
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El-ahrairah


Posted: 04:21PM Jun 11, 2013

FaithDushku wrote:
I saw your post... But nicats did post at the beginning of the Round... She was the third one to post (not including the Mod) and she said " whoo whoo...time to get my acting on! "


Faith, I am none too proud to admit this, but you're absolutely right. I had completely overlooked her post in the very beginning, and I apologize sincerely for that. Granted, nicats didn't come back to make any sort of defense once she was in danger, but that doesn't change the fact that I made a mistake.

Limerick. None of us wants to ruin any relationships over this, and I don't think anyone here is attacking you, personally. I'll admit that there hasn't exactly been an abundance of strong reasoning, but sometimes, it's just a feeling. Unfortunately, that feeling isn't always right, and that's beginning to appear to be the case now. If you feel that I have attacked you, then I apologize. Nothing I said was meant to come off like that.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 16:27:46---
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bradon182001*us


Posted: 04:52PM Jun 11, 2013

Voting list with 4 1/2 hours left in round.

Day
It takes 7 votes to select someone to be shot with the silver bullet.

bradon182001 voted for froggygg
buu441 voted for Limerick
dcf525 voted for kmrutledge
El-ahrairah voted for Limerick
FaithDushku voted for El-ahrairah
froggygg voted for tukuwakatiki
kmrutledge voted for TanCW
Limerick voted for Limerick
shaidar9haran voted for Limerick
Skybet voted for Limerick
slammngirl92 voted for Limerick
TanCW voted for slammngirl92

Nobody has been shot with the silver bullet yet.

It appears not everyone has voted, that'si nteresting. I could vote Limerick and end the round, but honestly I'm not at all convinced he is a wolf. I'm more inclined to think at least two of the wolves have voted for him I'm changing my vote at the time for the only non voter - tukuwakatiki.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 16:54:38---

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Limerickus


Posted: 05:32PM Jun 11, 2013

No, I know you're just playing the game, El. I am certainly not ending any relationships over this. I just don't really know what else can be said at this point. I don't even have a strong suspect to point towards as I normally would... I have no real defense. And I know I am overreacting, I am afraid of alienating people over all of this. I just... I don't know... Maybe I haven't had enough sleep or something. I wouldn't normally be as upset over this. I just feel so much pressure to just stop being myself. That being myself isn't acceptable. Either that I am viewed as a threat for being too analytical or that I am too involved. And Sky, I know no one has directly came after me for writing a long post, but... The most anyone has really said is that they are suspicious of me. And Shaidar specifically said...

However, in my experience those who type the long posts and make the huge arguments are those who truly feel involved and emotional about the game and normally are helpful humans. But Limerick is an experienced player and knows that that would draw suspicion. Right now I'm leaning towards voting for him, as it just seems like odd behavior.


It feels like every single game I am defending my analytical posts, wolf or human. Seer... I have never survived Night 1 Anyway, I'm fine, sorry for making anyone worried. I just don't want to go off on anyone, I know you're all just playing the game. And, with time, as people get to know me, maybe I won't feel like I have to defend my posts every single time. It just gets so tiring...
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tukuwakatikiAus


Posted: 05:42PM Jun 11, 2013

Sorry guys, I for some reason thought I posted before this point. I'm here and all caught up now.

It looks like there is a blood bath going on for the lead rolls...

I'd like to comment on a few different things going on here if I can find them again...

1) Limer ALWAYS posts a lot. It is not deviation for him. He loves strategy and puzzles and therefore will always read too much into it. Even when he was eaten in the last game I modded with ciphers, he would still PM me his answers to the ciphers just because he wanted to see if he could do them. Not that I am defending him. I actually told him I was suspicious because he made it through the first night, which hasn't happened in awhile. xD I don't believe we should be voted off for having long posts, it should be based on the content. Not everyone is a writer or as "articulate" as we should be. Many people at Braingle don't speak English as their first language or maybe don't have the same social skills as everyone else. It's not their fault. We are playing with experienced members, not just noobs. There is more strategy and more varieties than many are used to.

2) I think Skybet is being WAY too defensive on the SPV thing. first round I said:

Tuku said:
I feel like we can be more productive than everyone SPV-ing. That being said, I think it should be a group decision how.


and:
Faith, I really hate SPV and the way it was explained to me did not makes sense with the rules, so I am against it. But, we also don't have any leads as of now or any inactives (though I'm not complaining on that front).


I never really attacked anyone for SPVing. and Maybe it does serve a purpose but I said the way it was explained to me, it didn't make sense. A simple explanation of how you utilize it would have sufficed. We didn't need this huge debate. And even if it does serve a purpose, only like 4 people need to do it not the ENTIRE cast, which was my problem.

3) I don't even remember three...

I'm voting for skybet because while I see that Limer is getting really defensive, I think skybet is just as defensive and I find his tone a bit disrespectful.

EDIT: for grammar


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 17:55:00---

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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shaidar9haran*us


Posted: 06:11PM Jun 11, 2013

FaithDushku wrote:
El-ahrairah wrote:
On the other hand, nicats voted but has been the only one of us to have said nary a word. I consider it a courtesy, even if only SPV'ing, to take a moment to let everyone know that you're here. For her not to have done so bothers me more than not voting at all.


That was my post regarding my vote for nicats in round 1. I stated my issue with her not posting, and that would've gone for anyone who did (or didn't do) the same. I also re-stated this round that I tend to gun for inactives at the beginning of the game.


I saw your post... But nicats did post at the beginning of the Round... She was the third one to post (not including the Mod) and she said " whoo whoo...time to get my acting on! "

Granted, she was more in character and less "SPV for so and so" or "random vote", which is what most people did... But she did vote... And she posted... In fact, she voted for you... And then you helped to get her shot... I'm just saying...

In a game where we have NOTHING to go on yet (so we say)... I'm just sharing my own personal thoughts on why I would find you suspicious... That's all... You may very well be a human... But there's not a lot to go on now, so that's my reasoning...

Doesn't matter at the moment anyway, as it looks like Limerick will most likely be shot... But since a lot of this game so far has been A) Random voting, B) SPV voting, C) Arguing about SPV voting, and D) Fighting with Limerick for posting long lengthy messages...

I thought I'd post my thoughts...

Personally, I'm always weary of people who add to a majority... Not overall... But those who take it from a tie to a majority, when everyone has like 1 vote....

Because someone earlier said it best... Some wolves (not all) tend to hang back, and just help steer the vote... Cuz the person who starts the vote (for a specific person) is rarely a Wolf...

And yes, Director Mocha... We should all relax a bit... Just a play, people... We can't all play Seymour...

Oh, and Limerick... I was the Boss in a WTB game that ended in the 2nd round... LOL... It was SOO BAD... But I was wordy and spoke like I do in posts in my memo, and they got me... But then in the very next game I was Boss again, and played it much better (and we won!)... But yeah... Rare... But it happens... I hang my head in shame over that game...


Sorry for the super long quote but this post really opened my eyes. Currently I've been swamped with work, and moving to a new apartment, and have been kind of only half paying attention but this post made me go back and reread, and honestly, nothing Limerick has said has sparked me as truly offensive or out of bounds. I guess it was his fervor that made me more suspicious than anything. However, I feel like Faith pointed out a good point in that El was the one to jump on nicats for being inactive, when not only had she already posted, but many of us know her as an active player. I have a similar strategy Faith, I tend to look at voting patterns more than what people say. It is very easy to see wolfish behavior in the voting strategy, and jumping on a round one majority or even trying to force an early round 2 majority, and jumping on it late are key things I pick up on. After rereading I'm going to switch my vote to El. and off of Limerick even though it appears to be too late
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Limerickus


Posted: 06:31PM Jun 11, 2013

Kind of funny for me to say this, but, as far as El's missing Nicat's one short post, I can see that happening, wolf or human. I don't think identity would effect his ability to Ctrl-F or scan the page. That said, there is a certain chain of logic in wondering why he would go from slammn who had only his one vote to Nicats who already was holding a 2 vote majority. To protect himself in case someone switched to bring him in? It does make things safer. But he could also be putting his vote where he feels it belongs.

At any rate, a vote for El is the only thing that really could save me here, though, so, I will switch my vote back as it was to El. I would still like to hear more from Skybet though.
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bradon182001*us


Posted: 07:08PM Jun 11, 2013

Okay then, now that tukuwakatiki has posted and voted, I feel comfortable changing my vote to El-ahrairah to give Limerick a fighting chance. As I previously stated, I just am not convinced Limerick is a wolf and the more he posts, the less convinced I am that he is. He could be, but I'm just not convinced.

I, too, would be interested in hearing more from Sky.


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slammngirl92*us


Posted: 07:50PM Jun 11, 2013

Limerick, I love you like a brother, and it is just a game.... I know how you feel and you could be an honest human but we don't know. You know the hardest thing about surviving these early rounds? It's to not mess up once because people will pick up every little mistake because it is how we get suspicions on people.. we can't let everything slide and you just happened to get suspected.

If you are human which you very well could be, I am sorry but if you want to suggest someone else to shoot, I will be happy to look into it.

And don't at all take it personally.... (El-ahrairah is good at this speech. (El-ahrairah, you can use my example if you want... if you even know what I am talking about). I am sure no one here is voting for you to make you frustrated or angry.... it's just part of the game. ;)


Fearless.
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El-ahrairah


Posted: 07:53PM Jun 11, 2013

Quite a pickle I've found myself in here. I can only defend my switch to nicats so far, and here it is, for what it's worth:

The simple reason, as I've stated a few times, was that I thought she hadn't posted at all that round. Obviously, I was wrong, and as Limerick said, I managed to overlook it. It's easy to do when their one post is short and at the very top. Generally as the rounds get longer, it's the posts near the bottom that grab your attention, and I tend to have tunnel vision when I'm focused.

I suppose I was the one who pushed her into the biggest majority, being her third vote when a few other folks had only two. But I must point something out. Before my vote, there were four 2-vote majorities. nicats, Limerick, Skybet, and kmrutledge (Krum). I'm not sure if the logic is that I could've been trying to save one of the others who might have been a wolf by casting the 3rd vote onto nicats, but as I recall, none of you suspected the other candidates at the time, and aside from a mild suspicion of Skybet, you still don't. (Correct me if I'm mistaken.) Ergo, from most of your points of view, I simply placed one human over another to be shot. Were I a wolf, I wouldn't have cared who was shot. But again, my motivation had nothing to do with thinking she's human or a wolf, and I said as much.

Now, as for Limerick. Honestly at this point, I'm leaning more toward human after his impassioned defense, coupled with the fact that he went so far as to turn the barrel on himself, leaving him one vote from an early grave. But changing my vote now is tantamount to suicide, and I don't want to die, either.

So, Limerick. Best of luck to you, and if I should be the one to fall, I leave it to you to ferret out the wolves.

Edit: Just noticed that your post said you were moving to a new apartment. I just moved, myself, so I guess neither of us is getting much sleep lately.


---This message was edited on 2013-06-11 20:41:13---
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