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The Werewolf Game #2940

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This game is moderated by Gizzer. Please read the rules and contact the moderator with any questions or concerns about this game.

Voting Discussion
This game finished in 8 rounds.

Discussion of Round #4

Round: 0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  

AuthorMessage
Gizzer


Posted: 09:34AM Jul 29, 2013

Round 4 Challenge
What's the Deal?

Let's play some poker. We'll dispense with the betting.

Here is my hand:

?? K♣ 9♦ 10♣ J♥

Correctly identify my hole card (represented by ??) and you will earn the right to vote.

I don't want to receive 81 guesses, so each team gets only 3 attempts at this!


Hint 1: Are you familiar with five-card stud? Maybe you should read up on it.
Hint 2: I considered calling the challenge Revealing a mystery!
Hint 3: 81 is not an arbitrary number!
Bone Toss: Wait! Are you old enough to play? Can I see your drivers license?



The randomly selected Scapegoat for this round is Limerick.
Limerick, please cast your vote for yourself now. If you earn - or are extended - the right to vote, you may change it.

Other players are not allowed to vote for Limerick until/unless he is able to change his vote!


Reveal: dfamina was human. Three wolves and the seer remain in the game.




---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 20:24:12---
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 09:35AM Jul 29, 2013

No surprise the night didn't time out as everyone earned the right to vote last round.

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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sonic102cin


Posted: 01:55PM Jul 29, 2013

If anyone does get the right to vote, please extend it to "the team without any wolves other than Team Alpha".

Play my game "Alliances"! PM me!
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Limerickus


Posted: 02:11PM Jul 29, 2013

Hmm, at a bit of a loss so far... "What's the Deal" seems to have no real significance that I can find yet other than the obvious...

Tried playing with the letters in the suit names and ranking of the suits, SHDC, and the ordering of cards in the hand, though, in five card stud, guess you don't get much choice in that...
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 02:27PM Jul 29, 2013

Do not extend the right to vote to the team with WittyKitty and kmr on it.
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YuffieAus


Posted: 02:37PM Jul 29, 2013

I have been around the bend & back with this clue already & am no closer to solving it than before I even looked at it


Shadows wrote:
Do not extend the right to vote to the team with WittyKitty and kmr on it.


Ahh see, I put WittyKitty on the wrong team in my mind & thought she was Team Alpha (which is why I "protected" her last round). Hmm...
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 02:54PM Jul 29, 2013

Why would she be on Team Alpha? Oh, whatever, this team thing is confusing.
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EliosAus


Posted: 03:05PM Jul 29, 2013

Just stopping by to say that I am here ( I forget that talking in the TB is separate from talking in the game ), and that I have not yet had any breakthroughs with the puzzle.

"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." - Chesterton
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debc1A


Posted: 03:09PM Jul 29, 2013

afternoon

i am here


This space is intentionally left blank.
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YuffieAus


Posted: 03:19PM Jul 29, 2013

Shadows wrote:
Why would she be on Team Alpha?


I've been way more vocal in my TB but In-game I'll just say I had a thought & I went with it. (based off Round 2's voting & the fact that "Team Alpha" had been granted voting rights.)
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debc1A


Posted: 03:25PM Jul 29, 2013

sonic- i don't understand your post
last round lance said team alpha didn't have wolves and they should do the hunting
now you are saying extend the rights to vote to anyone other than team alpha
could you please explain your reasoning


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YuffieAus


Posted: 03:30PM Jul 29, 2013

DebC1, I think he means to extend the voting to another team without wolves so we can potentially clear more players.
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WittyKittyAus


Posted: 04:42PM Jul 29, 2013

Okay, well, even if last round doesn't shed light for the rest of you, I gleaned this from it. There were two humans in a majority making it very easy for the wolves to hide out. Now, let me also point out that I did not put unctarheel in a majority. I did tie it up, yes, but kmr was the one who actually switched her vote last minute. However, this may be a moot point since both of us were human. If kmr is a wolf, then I don't know why she'd draw attention to herself by switching her vote last minute. This is what the voting list was at the end of last round:
21kaldridge21 voted for dfamina
buu441 voted for WittyKitty
debc1 voted for kmrutledge
dfamina voted for Limerick
Elios voted for Elios
kmrutledge voted for unctarheel
KRUGERGIRL14 voted for WittyKitty
LanceKolaski voted for WittyKitty
Limerick voted for buu441
mocha613 voted for unctarheel
Shadows voted for tukuwakatiki
sonic102 voted for unctarheel
unctarheel voted for WittyKitty
WittyKitty voted for unctarheel
Yuffie voted for unctarheel

So, with two majorities on humans, the only ones who didn't put themselves in a majority are: kaldridge, deb, dfam, Elios, Limerick, and Shadows. Now, I think this is actually important somehow. We've got three wolves left and the seer (presumably, since Gizzer didn't say that unctarheel was a seer but rather human (which leads me to another question: why in the world would he claim seer if he wasn't a wolf or the seer? I can't see how that would be at all helpful. Sure, he could've maybe swung a vote at the last minute to save his life during the day, but the wolves would've eaten him overnight. It just doesn't seem at all logical). OH! This brings me to an interesting conclusion. Kmr switched her vote presumably AFTER he said he was the seer. No mention of why she switched her vote. In fact, we didn't hear from Kmr much at all last round (only her post about SPVing for kaldridge). If she is a wolf, she would have motive and opportunity to put the nail in unc's coffin, so to speak, and that way, they could kill someone else overnight.

I know you shouldn't have any reason to trust that I'm a human, but it'd be stupid to waste another silver bullet on me. If you do, you will find that I am human, which is why it's quite important for me to document my thoughts this round. So, expect more posts from me a little later on this round.


Baila como si nadie está mirando.
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 08:54PM Jul 29, 2013

In my WWG experience, those who write essays justifying their actions are usually wolves.

EDIT: If you're a dead human on kmr and WittyKitty's team, DO NOT SOLVE THE CHALLENGES.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-29 21:01:34---
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Gizzer


Posted: 09:56PM Jul 29, 2013

I've posted the second hint.

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ShadowsAca


Posted: 10:16PM Jul 29, 2013

Also, in case it's not obvious, no spoilers from now on. Make sure the three teams with no wolves can vote, and that's all.

EDIT: Not an SPV. Voting for kmr.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-29 22:37:34---
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sonic102cin


Posted: 10:37PM Jul 29, 2013

Shadows, the people in kmr and kitty's group can solve the challenge, but then they can PM Gizzer to not give voting powers to kmrutledge and kitty.

Play my game "Alliances"! PM me!
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 10:44PM Jul 29, 2013

Ah, good point! I had forgotten.

In any case, it would be most helpful if they would refrain from brainstorming solutions in the TB. Make it so that the wolfies would have to solve it on their own.

Actually, it would be even more helpful if everyone would refrain from trying to solve the challenge temporarily...
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WittyKittyAus


Posted: 11:17PM Jul 29, 2013

Shadows, why are you so convinced that both of us are wolves? If my only failure is writing long, logical posts, then I will credit that to you not knowing my game play.

To everyone else, I don't think Shadows is a wolf, just a misguided human who has got her mind set on two people. That's exactly what the wolves would want since that takes all of the focus off of them. If Shadows were a wolf, she wouldn't risk pointing her finger so fiercely at me because once I'm dead, focus will turn back to her. The wolves are probably laying low and letting the humans fight back and forth.


Baila como si nadie está mirando.
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21kaldridge21Aus


Posted: 11:21PM Jul 29, 2013

How do you know there are 3 teams without wolves?

I'm back
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Limerickus


Posted: 12:51AM Jul 30, 2013

Yeah, I am wondering that myself o.o
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kmrutledgetth


Posted: 01:03AM Jul 30, 2013

WittyKitty wrote:
Okay, well, even if last round doesn't shed light for the rest of you, I gleaned this from it. There were two humans in a majority making it very easy for the wolves to hide out. Now, let me also point out that I did not put unctarheel in a majority. I did tie it up, yes, but kmr was the one who actually switched her vote last minute. However, this may be a moot point since both of us were human. If kmr is a wolf, then I don't know why she'd draw attention to herself by switching her vote last minute. This is what the voting list was at the end of last round:
21kaldridge21 voted for dfamina
buu441 voted for WittyKitty
debc1 voted for kmrutledge
dfamina voted for Limerick
Elios voted for Elios
kmrutledge voted for unctarheel
KRUGERGIRL14 voted for WittyKitty
LanceKolaski voted for WittyKitty
Limerick voted for buu441
mocha613 voted for unctarheel
Shadows voted for tukuwakatiki
sonic102 voted for unctarheel
unctarheel voted for WittyKitty
WittyKitty voted for unctarheel
Yuffie voted for unctarheel

So, with two majorities on humans, the only ones who didn't put themselves in a majority are: kaldridge, deb, dfam, Elios, Limerick, and Shadows. Now, I think this is actually important somehow. We've got three wolves left and the seer (presumably, since Gizzer didn't say that unctarheel was a seer but rather human (which leads me to another question: why in the world would he claim seer if he wasn't a wolf or the seer? I can't see how that would be at all helpful. Sure, he could've maybe swung a vote at the last minute to save his life during the day, but the wolves would've eaten him overnight. It just doesn't seem at all logical). OH! This brings me to an interesting conclusion. Kmr switched her vote presumably AFTER he said he was the seer. No mention of why she switched her vote. In fact, we didn't hear from Kmr much at all last round (only her post about SPVing for kaldridge). If she is a wolf, she would have motive and opportunity to put the nail in unc's coffin, so to speak, and that way, they could kill someone else overnight.

I know you shouldn't have any reason to trust that I'm a human, but it'd be stupid to waste another silver bullet on me. If you do, you will find that I am human, which is why it's quite important for me to document my thoughts this round. So, expect more posts from me a little later on this round.

I was gone all day yesterday, that is why i did not post much.


The faster I type in my password, the more secret agent-y I feel.
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 01:35AM Jul 30, 2013

21kaldridge21 wrote:
How do you know there are 3 teams without wolves?


Because I am almost certain that (a) kmr and Kitty are both wolves, and that (b) they are on the same team.

As for why, well, the battle at the end of last round seemed unnecessarily dramatic.

It's late and I'm not making sense. More tomorrow.
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WittyKittyAus


Posted: 09:16AM Jul 30, 2013

You may be right about kmr being a wolf. Our three guesses were exhausted for our team, and I have a sneaking suspicion that kmr used them up. As it sits right now, Team Delta only has two living members: myself and kmr. Two of my teammates were taken out at night, and jpost was shot first round. That means there are 12 people on four other teams (unless one of the teams had only two or three members that are already dead), meaning an average of 3 people per team. Now, we are assuming that Team Alpha has no wolves (I am guessing this knowledge was straight from Gizzer?). Team Delta may have one wolf, assuming that kmr is a wolf. That leaves two other wolves (who could both be on one team or be split up onto two teams). So, Shadows' guess of there being another team without a wolf is actually a decent one. In fact, there could be two other teams without wolves. I would suggest that other teams extend the right to vote to a team without wolves besides Team Alpha.

Baila como si nadie está mirando.
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 09:45AM Jul 30, 2013

I need to take the time to really think about what has been said today, you all are messing with some of my theories...

However, as for the clue, Can people at least post what they have tried that is NOT right, so we don't waste tries?


"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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Gizzer


Posted: 09:57AM Jul 30, 2013

Hint 3 has been posted.
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KRUGERGIRL14Aus


Posted: 09:58AM Jul 30, 2013

SPV for now.

*vampscholar*
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EliosAus


Posted: 10:39AM Jul 30, 2013

mocha613 wrote:
However, as for the clue, Can people at least post what they have tried that is NOT right, so we don't waste tries?
I don't mind doing that: I tried Ace of Hearts; I was wrong.

I thought I had a lead based on a book and a page 81, but that's probably leading nowhere (except to me maybe buying a new novel to read haha!).


"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." - Chesterton
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debc1A


Posted: 10:42AM Jul 30, 2013

morning

i am here

i am thinking km is a wolf

there are also some people being very quite


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YuffieAus


Posted: 10:54AM Jul 30, 2013

WittyKitty wrote:
You may be right about kmr being a wolf...As it sits right now, Team Delta only has two living members: myself and kmr. Two of my teammates were taken out at night, and jpost was shot first round.... Team Delta may have one wolf, assuming that kmr is a wolf. That leaves two other wolves (who could both be on one team or be split up onto two teams).


I find it odd that all of your members are being eaten (the shooting was coincidence since Jpost was inactive); if KMR is a lone wolf on Team Delta, she'd have no one to plot with anyway (regardless of who is alive on her team). Keeping them alive could actually assist her in figuring out the clues. The only reason (I can see) for her wanting them dead is if you were her fellow wolf; now you two can share the talkbox openly & your human companions can do nothing but sit back & watch.

I would say this could happen in another team, but the eating kinda points to you.... And it could be an attempt to frame you, except no one knew who was on your team until you told us.

Now, we are assuming that Team Alpha has no wolves (I am guessing this knowledge was straight from Gizzer?).


Yes. In Round 3, a team granted the right to vote "to a team with no wolves" & Gizzer started alphabetically, so we know that Team Alpha has no wolves.

I would suggest that other teams extend the right to vote to a team without wolves besides Team Alpha.


I actually agree - if we can narrow down the teams without wolves & we express who is on what team, then we'd narrow our wolf-suspects down to the 2-6 members of said team(s). But, that would require us working together, which I've not seen much of this game (besides our individual Talkboxes).

EDIT:

I guessed Queen of Hearts, which was incorrect.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 10:56:04---
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Limerickus


Posted: 11:42AM Jul 30, 2013

Well, it is hard to say what is safe to reveal and what is not at this point still, a lot of information will be more powerful for the humans as the game comes closer to a close anyway, and actually, I would argue, less powerful for the wolves. Right now the wolves don't have much ability to narrow down talk boxes, though... This vote extension stuff certainly does give some heading. Anyone else have any info to share on which teams were extended to? I wish I had been more thoughtful first round at giving the answer... As it seems likely that I was the only one who had the full solution at that point, we could have gained a fair bit of information there...

Ah well...

ETA: Some input from kmr would be helpful...


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 11:44:04---
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buu441Ain


Posted: 11:53AM Jul 30, 2013

sorry i haven't been much vocal in the game discussion so far. am yet to earn the right to vote, and i haven't been able to give that much time to WWG recently. am helping out in the TB a bit.

Leo: Hold on. This is gonna hurt. Coach Hedge: I was BORN for HURT!!
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 12:01PM Jul 30, 2013

I don't know if some of you are being particularly insightful, or if you're just throwing your fellow wolves under the bus.

Anyway, just checking in for the day.
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 12:07PM Jul 30, 2013

Whoa whoa whoa if kmr ends up being a wolf then I believe that you're human, Kitty. More in a second.

EDIT: We tried to extend the right to vote to "a team without wolves other than Team Alpha", but since we forgot to state that the wolves in question must be living, Gizzer ever-so-humorously informed us of the impossibility of such an action. Therefore, every team other than Team Alpha has a wolf, and since there are five teams in total, freakshow's team is now human-only.

I'm off; have a good day!


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 12:19:14---
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 12:49PM Jul 30, 2013

Can someone on Shadow's team confirm this? I want to believe Shadows, but I also don't want to get caught by a really big risk taking wolf.

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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WittyKittyAus


Posted: 12:59PM Jul 30, 2013

If what shadows is saying is verified, then that means that kmr is the wolf on team Delta, freak's team doesn't have any more living wolves, team alpha is good, and the other two teams have one wolf each. That makes it a lot easier to figure out who is who.

Baila como si nadie está mirando.
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Limerickus


Posted: 01:06PM Jul 30, 2013

Wait, Shadows, what exactly did Gizzer say? I am confused by how not specifying living or dead would make the team selection less possible. She basically said all teams other than Team Alpha have wolves?

Which would indeed clear freak's box...

It would also peg either kmr or Witty as wolves... I am still heavily leaning kmr, Witty would basically be signing her death warrant otherwise... Shadows lying would be too much a house of cards, it wouldn't stand, all of her living teammates would have to be wolves or she would be shooting herself... This would mean in this case KRUGER is also a wolf... Or they have more members that are idle. Kruger shot a wolf though, so I find that one unlikely... Wow, this is a maze.... Or... They are themselves Team Alpha... which is also certainly possible. Based on phrasing, I am not inclined to peg them as Team Alpha which would suggest they are part of the team that Delta extended the vote to most likely in round 3... Witty, who did your team extend the vote to?
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YuffieAus


Posted: 01:12PM Jul 30, 2013

WOW! My mind was blown... It's a good thing my theories are usually wrong b/c I am a chatty-Cathy in the Talkbox. (No joke, it's virtually my Diary of Thoughts )


So... it would be more beneficial for the humans to have all teams come out with their team members than it would be keeping them a secret. Because, honestly, what's the point in keeping the teams a secret to begin with? We're still looking for wolves and now we can start narrowing the search down.

I'm on team Echo - we renamed it Team Bazinga (LOL) - and as soon as someone gives me the go-ahead, I'm all for revealing my teammates. (I won't do it just yet, in case someone comes up with the reason why the humans would want this to be a secret).

EDIT:
Limerick Wrote:
I am confused by how not specifying living or dead would make the team selection less possible. She basically said all teams other than Team Alpha have wolves?


Because Dead or alive, one team each had one wolf (4 wolves). Living, 3 teams have wolves. We only have 5 teams and Team Alpha was proven not to have any wolves and Freakshow was a lone wolf in his TB.

This would mean in this case KRUGER is also a wolf... Or they have more members that are idle... Or... They are themselves Team Alpha...


See now, I was thinking Shadows & KRUGER were Team Alpha (I incorrectly assumed WittyKitty was team Alpha at the same time, which is why I went with the Unc vote last round).

I am not inclined to peg them as Team Alpha which would suggest they are part of the team that Delta extended the vote to most likely in round 3...


Round 3, everyone earned the right to vote - Team Bazinga also extended it to a "team with no wolves" and we got Team Alpha as well. Round 2, Dfamina solved the clue & extended it to another group; 7 people earned the right to vote but only 5 voted (not counting Talanpoe who was scapegoat), so it had to have been 2 groups voting in Round 2 (b/c groups are only 2-6 players). I'm assuming the two groups were Team Alpha and Team Delta.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 13:22:09---
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 01:16PM Jul 30, 2013

I'm not lying. Would now be a good time to reveal who's on which team?

EDIT: I'm fine with revealing my team; if my teammates agree, they can just go ahead and do it.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 13:18:18---
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 01:25PM Jul 30, 2013

I am also on team Echo/Bazinga. I'll leave it to our third teammate to make themselves known if they wish for now. We granted rights to "a team with no wolf" in round 3 and got team Alpha. We have not managed to solve this round yet. I can confirm that Yuffie has been quite active in our box, I tend to believe her human-ness.

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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sonic102cin


Posted: 01:50PM Jul 30, 2013

PEOPLE WITH RIGHT TO VOTE, READ THIS!

ELIOS IS A WOLF! I'm in Team Charlie, and my only team member is Elios. So one of us is a wolf. I know I'm not a wolf, but you may shoot me if you want to. But Elios is a wolf!


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 13:50:52---

Play my game "Alliances"! PM me!
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EliosAus


Posted: 02:00PM Jul 30, 2013

The ability to extend the right to vote has definitely proven useful! Deduction will definitely reveal which members are wolves.

Sonic is indeed my "partner" in Team Charlie. Since we're the only two, and one is a wolf, this explains his complete disinterest in solving any of the puzzles. I did all of the work on the monuments puzzle, and he never even thanked me for it. He hasn't even tried to help on this one.. oh, except to practically beg to be extended the right to vote. And why should he? The wolves don't have to be able to vote; they will always be able to eat a Human at night. The only reason to be able to shoot during the day is to save one of their own... Sorry. Lots of frustration on my part due to these "teams" we've been assigned.

As far as Team Charlie is concerned, I'm hoping the Humans will use some reasoning to decide which of us is lying/telling the truth. At least we know it's a 50/50 chance til the real wolf is killed.


"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." - Chesterton
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debc1A


Posted: 02:27PM Jul 30, 2013

this is getting exciting

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Limerickus


Posted: 02:51PM Jul 30, 2013

Okay, I am guessing from the above deb that you are not the missing link in Team Bazinga xD At this point though, I have it pretty much narrowed to you or buu, whomever it is, I would like to hear your claims on why you are not a wolf. At this point I am pretty convinced by Witty's claims of kmr being her box's wolf, if not, we'll know by shooting him anyway that Witty is a wolf... I am fairly confident in my read that mocha is not a wolf, her position also would be pretty precarious taking sides against the last member of her talkbox effectively, we do need to know who that is though... As I am convinced that we are indeed dealing with a case of a wolf in each talkbox other than alpha. Meaning one of you three IS the wolf. Phrasing this to protect innocents is fun xD I think I have all the teams worked out, just not quite sure of two people. Sonic and Elios, I need to hear more from you two, I am personally leaning against you, sonic, but, it is a hard read...

Those are my thoughts on current game disposition, I have more to back this, but don't want to reveal the rest of my team unless they want to be revealed. I will say I am a member of Team Bravo. Too much out there for you guys not to know this, so, I will say we are a six member talkbox, freak was one of ours, as was talan, we have four left.

ETA: To simplify: debc, buu - Whichever of you is on Team Echo, I would like to hear why you are not a wolf, I am leaning buu right now. Elios/Sonic - I want to hear more from you two as to why you aren't wolves, I will look into this deeper. For now, my vote, if I end up getting one is squarely on kmr


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 14:54:36---
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KRUGERGIRL14Aus


Posted: 02:55PM Jul 30, 2013

The seer provided our team with information that Sonic was human. This proves that Elios is the wolf and not sonic. Changing my vote now.

*vampscholar*
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YuffieAus


Posted: 03:06PM Jul 30, 2013

So... if I'm reading everything correctly, the wolves are:

Team Alpha - No wolf
Team Bravo - Freakshow07 (shot)
Team Charlie - Elios
Team Delta - Kmrutledge
Team Bazinga - ??



Buu441 is indeed in Team Bazinga; I was going to respect his right to divulge that info, but he stated in our TB that he'd be AFK so I'm not sure if he'll be back on by the end of the round.

I'm not positive Buu is the wolf, but Mocha has been very helpful for our team with answering the challenges & I think it'd be more beneficial for a human to gain the right to vote rather than the wolf, so by simple deduction, I believe Buu to be the wolf in our group.
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 03:07PM Jul 30, 2013

Skinny and KM, how did you grant alpha with the right to vote? "the team with no wolves" or "the seer's team" or something else???

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 03:18PM Jul 30, 2013

Ok, here is my group list.

Alpha: (4)
Unknown
Unknonw
Unknown
Unknown

Bravo: (6)
Limerick
Freak (W)
Talan (H)
Unknown
Unknown
Unknown

Charlie: (2)
Sonic
Elios

Delta: (5)
Skinny
KM
jpost (H)
dfamina (H)
TanCW (H)

Echo/Bazinga: (3)
Mocha
Yuffie
buu

Because we know who is in Charlie, Delta, and Echo, and we know we got the wolf in Bravo, and we know Alpha is wolf free, that means everyone not listed in Charlie, Delta, and Echo is human:
Kal
deb
kruger
lance
limerick
shadows
tuku

I say we vote for Elios. If we get wolf, we know Sonic is likely human (I say likely since someone could be not telling the truth) If we get human, we vote Sonic next.

Then we vote KM. Same situation, if we get wolf, Skinny is human. If not, we get Skinny next.

Finally it comes to my group, vote Buu, etc...

I'm fine with whatever order, but I think we've got this in the bag, so to say. The only problem is getting voting rights. But since we know who everyone is, it makes sense to extend voting rights to all, humans outweigh wolves. So if you know the answer, share (in white for spoilers for those who want to still work on them)?

What do people think?


"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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Limerickus


Posted: 03:29PM Jul 30, 2013

Well, no one seems to be around and honestly, this is pretty much not going to hurt anyone more than it helps...

Alpha

EDITED UPON REQUEST

Bravo

freak
limerick
Talan

ADDITIONAL NAMES REMOVED UPON REQUEST

Charlie

Elios
Sonic

Delta

Witty
TanCW
Dfamina
Jpost
Kmr

Echo

Mocha
Yuffie
Buu

If you go over voting records, I think you will find this all fits and works out. Consistent with voting records, consistent with all claims so far, so, I think this pretty much knocks it out.

Possible Wolves: kmr, Elios, buu, sonic, mocha, Yuffie, Witty (in order of suspicion)

Witty would obviously move way up the list if kmr flips human as would sonic if Elios flips human

Right now, I am still favouring a kmr vote though. I just really think Witty has given too much to be a wolf, Elios and sonic really both don't have me convinced. Once we have kmr/witty, Sonic/Elios out... We will have time to pick off the last wolf.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 15:36:45---
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 03:32PM Jul 30, 2013

We should have more than enough time to go through all of my team as necessary until we get the last wolf. The seer should be able to help us as well.

Limerick, not knowing who is in Alpha and bravo protects the seer. You might want to edit it out.


"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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Limerickus


Posted: 03:38PM Jul 30, 2013

Well, I suppose the seer is still alive, so sure. All that said, assuming the Seer is alive and in A/B, we could use the info
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 03:39PM Jul 30, 2013

I figured, if I didn't know those people, the wolves probably didn't either. Thanks. Obviously I know now also, but still, the seer has not been revealed, so even if I am a wolf, I would have a 1/3 chance. But this way it is 1/6.

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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LanceKolaskiAus


Posted: 04:30PM Jul 30, 2013

Here I am again to speak for my team. This is a message most directed to team alpha and of course any remaining humans. Also, my team is team Bravo if that helps.

TanCW, talanpoe, and dfamina were eaten. We know talanpoe was in our box meaning the two people taken out at night, Witty would be talking about are TanCW and dfamina. Of those shot in the day, she accounts for jpost; we know freakshow was on our team, leaving unc in another box which we believe was probably in team Alpha's box. We have four people here, suggesting 8 people in the remaining boxes.

dfamina indicated they had determined the boxes were unequal in size... Based on their proposed box size of 5, this information fits. So far, We are inclined to believe the provided information about her box size. This also suggests to us that Witty is unlikely to be a wolf as that level of reveal seems dangerous. This however means the other boxes are likely to be small in size. With us having 6 and Team Delta having 5, that means in the whole game, the remaining teams had 9 players total. Minimum per box is 2 per the game setup. Two teams of two would allow one last team of 5. We know the reveals so far in her box have flipped human, meaning her box virtually must have a wolf unless both it and Team Alpha have 5 players.

Well, actually, our extension was based on living members. Team Delta would have had only 3 at that point. Therefore, Team Alpha having 3 or more as all their members would have been alive. Even so, it would seem likely that Delta does have at least one wolf. We are leaning kmr at this point. As for team makeup, teams ranged 2-6 players, we had 6, Delta had 5. 2+3+4+5+6 = 20. Coincidence? We don't think so.

Also, in regards to extending the vote last round, not only was our vote extension extended to a team with no wolves, we had tiebreakers assigned in the case of multiple teams with no wolves.

1) If there are more than one team with no wolves, the team with no wolves with the highest number of remaining players gets the vote.
2) If there are two teams with the same amount of players and no wolves, the voting right is then applied alphabetically.

From this, you, Team Alpha, should be able to glean some more information on the numerical compositions of the teams; it is still, unfortunately, probably too dangerous for Alpha members to outright reveal themselves, but hopefully that gives you guys something to work with.

Lastly, some extra info that may help: Talan and Freak were on our team, and there are four of us left.
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 05:11PM Jul 30, 2013

Changing my vote to Elios. Catch up later.

EDIT: I don't really want to share the solution because I don't want any wolves to be able to eat tonight. There's the slight chance that the Seer ends up being the Sacrificial Lamb, but hopefully that doesn't happen.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-30 18:10:47---
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Limerickus


Posted: 06:17PM Jul 30, 2013

Hmm, afraid I don't follow the logic... I mean, the Seer is useless to us if they can't vote, they are the same as any other human. Unless you are saying that one of the three of us is the Seer, which, is also very endangering to the seer. The way this game is setup, all we lose if a seer is eaten is future votes since they can still talk in their TB once dead. So, the only reason to protect them is if they have the power to vote..
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LanceKolaskiAus


Posted: 07:12PM Jul 30, 2013

Just extend the right to vote to Team Bravo ;)
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kmrutledgetth


Posted: 07:53PM Jul 30, 2013

Well, as was said before by wittykitty, our team lost the right to vote. I will just go ahead and admit it, it was me. I had several answers, and if you know me, you know i am not a patient person. here are my wrong answers:
8 of diamonds
queen of spades
and the ace of hearts
all of these were wrong, and i have no idea what the answer might be.
I answered personally while i was under the assumption that my answers would not affect the whole team. I assure you, if i had known different, i would have talked with my team about it. Call me a wolf if you want to, but you are making a big mistake if you waste a bullet on me this round. Also i was gone for so long, because it was nighttime in my timezone. i am in the ICT btw.


The faster I type in my password, the more secret agent-y I feel.
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Gizzer


Posted: 08:25PM Jul 30, 2013

I've posted the final hint.
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Gizzer


Posted: 09:36PM Jul 30, 2013

It's pumpkin time for me.

I'll be back before the round times out.
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kmrutledgetth


Posted: 11:24PM Jul 30, 2013

GUYS!! Highlight the bone toss!!!!!

The faster I type in my password, the more secret agent-y I feel.
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WittyKittyAus


Posted: 11:38PM Jul 30, 2013

@Limer's 126 post: We forgot to extend the right to vote last round.

@Mochs' 27 post: In Round 2, we extended the right to vote to the team with the most living players that didn't have Limerick on it. Now, that may seem cruel, but I had never seen Limer fail to solve a puzzle before, and we didn't have a reason to keep people from voting. But, unfortunately, that doesn't help us with identities much.

Also, kmr's comment that she didn't know that it affected the rest of the team is either ignorant or a flat out lie. I posted in the talkbox that we as a team only get 3 guesses, so she knew that by guessing three times that would exhaust our guesses. Not to mention that TanCW and dfam also posted apprehensions about individually guessing since we only got 3 guesses. Then Gizzer came back and said our guesses had been exhausted. However, it any team shouldn't have the right to vote, that would be Delta or Charlie, since humans aren't majority in either.

At this point, I don't really have much else to say. Things seem pretty cut and dry.


Baila como si nadie está mirando.
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ShadowsAca


Posted: 12:38AM Jul 31, 2013

I would love to extend the right to Bravo, but Gizzer says we can only extend it to one team -- or attempt to do so, anyway. Sorry, I should have added the word "living".
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 12:53AM Jul 31, 2013

I'm going to go ahead and write out the thoughts I had while making notes. These do not all reflect the revelations of the day, mostly because I want to get them out in case I get eaten and if we come to find out we have been deceived for some reason. As I went through the game, I ignored posts about the clues and focused on wolf hunting.

Kal: Doesn't really help much at all. Votes when she can (jpost and dfamina). She did bring up the Sacrificial Lamb, which caused me to wonder if she was a wolf, because I know many of us had forgotten about that, but a wolf would have to remember it since it is integral to their game.

buu: Votes with majority (jpost) first round and starts the majority for wittykitty in round 3. In round 2, he questions the legitimacy of dfamina's vote. Otherwise doesn't say much productive for wolf sniffing one way or another. In our team, he was willing to help with the puzzles, but, again, didn't participate in our conversation about wolf hunting. I'm not sure if that is just his style to be quiet, but I am always cautious of the quiet ones. He was accused of protecting me, but our team set out to protect each other that round. If he is the wolf in our team, it makes sense that he wants to keep our faith in him, and thus protect me.

deb: Votes with majority for jpost in round 1 and in round 3 votes KM without stating a reason why. Checks in to say she is here, but does nothing productive for wolf hunting.

dfamina (human): Round 1 voted jpost, round 2 was the only one to solve the puzzle and SPV'ed Lance, round 3 SPV'ed Limerick. Was eaten round 3. I found it interesting he was the first to be eaten that could have been seen as a threat. This happened the night that all wolves earned the right to vote. So more than one wolf must have seen him as threatening. However, as he was the one to solve the puzzle round 2, I could see how this would be threatening, however, since he has a wolf in his TB, you would think the wolf would want to keep someone who was helping them earn the right to vote... it puzzles me. During round 2 he was quite talkative, the thing that caught my attention was his comment that if Shadows was a wolf, she could be reacting to a wolf being voted for, thus ensuring that a human would be shot. If this was the case, it would mean that one out of the following who had received votes at that point was a wolf: Lance, Kruger, Talan (Human), and deb. Looking at that now, we don't have any of them on the wolf list, in fact, all are in the teams we think are all human. If this turns out to be untrue, bravo to the wolves for convincing us all that it is, AND, we would want to go back to this list (and to considering Shadows as a wolf)

Elios: Seems to only vote for herself (once because she was scapegoat and then just left it there). Does not say much else helpful for hunting wolves. Could be a wolf trying to not leave a voting pattern? That would be the first time I have seen that tactic used.

freak (wolf): Doesn't say anything productive round 1, just joins majority for jpost. In round 2, is in majority the entire round after voting started, and never said anything in his defense. Odd. Like he knew he was done for. Maybe assumed voting rights would have been extended to the seer's team?

jpost (human): Completely inactive round 1 and shot.

KM: Votes with jpost majority, then SPV's Kruger, then SPV's Kal. Never gives a reason for her votes. Does not say anything else to help wolf hunt.

Kruger: For the first two rounds, she never says anything productive in finding wolves. Voted tuku in round 1 with no post, votes first for Freak without ever giving an explanation (which caused much frustration... probably seer info?) It made me wonder if she was a wolf voting for another wolf knowing ID's would be given, never expecting someone else to jump on her vote. Now that I
know she is in the same team as Shadows, it makes me suspect this less. The alternate to this thought is she must be a human, for ferreting out our first wolf.

Lance: In round one, was sure to not vote in majority to give everyone a chance to vote. Round 2 nothing productive. In round 3, points out Team Alpha has no wolves, encourages them to not reveal themselves. Got a wolf vibe from wittykitty, and was even more concerned when yuffie came to wittykitty's rescue. This thought really caught my attention. Could Skinny and yuffie be partner wolves? It is possible with our current theory... If KM turns out to be human, Skinny is a wolf, which would make me look too yuffie. At the same time, Yuffie has been focused on suspecting Skinny in our TB since round 2, so I tend to think not, and that Lance is reading too much on that moment and ignoring Yuffie's posts about Skinny in game earlier.

Limerick: How is he still alive? When Limerick is still alive past round 1, I tend to think he is a wolf. Ok, well really, if I'm in a game with Limerick I think he is a wolf, but maybe that is just past probability speaking. Round 1 not much of note, talks about strategy with helping out and extending the right to vote. In round 2, he claimed that he could clear large groups of humans at once, but never came back to explain. I'd like to hear what he was thinking back then to see if it would help confirm or deny what is happening now. I've got a lot written for him round 3, but the key thing I got was his comment about the sacrificial lamb... I don't think a wolf would have honestly forgotten the sacrificial lamb, and I can't see one throwing in that just to throw people off. Makes me think Limerick is human. He strongly believes we should be working together more so we all get the right to vote, since wolves eat someone regardless... and we can learn more from the eating pattern that way. Voted Mochs at first, then changed to buu when buu voted for Skinny because Limerick thinks Skinny is playing in normal fashion.

Mocha: Votes dfamina round 1 for also being not very active to give others a chance to vote. Round 2 makes hypotheses about why there are two votes for freak. Points out wolves would want to eat the humans in a TB if there was one with two (we now know that is not the case, so not an issue). Round 3, defends herself when put in majority by Skinny, places vote on UNC because he might be a non-voting person who earned the RTV. Our TB discussed this suspicion first, and I just implemented it here. Not getting a wolf vibe from Skinny. I looked specifically at this since we also discussed her as the possible wolf that earned RTV and Yuffie thought she was being suspicious.

Shadows: Joins majority for jpost, Second person voting for freak with no explanation why. Would a wolf really put another wolf in majority? I've seen it done, and I've seen friendships almost ruined because of it. I would not think so. I am 99% sure Shadows is human, and thus would not lie about other things in the game. Thus why I tend to think we are on the right track with our current state. Round 3 she SPV's tuku, and points out when Limerick makes majority on mocha (but is ok with it, just wants to make sure he knows).

Sonic: Votes inactive jpost, brings up a strategy round 2 that doesn't get much steam. People shoot it down pretty fast. Wants to vote UNC for revenge, but I'm not sure what it is in revenge of, since UNC didn't ever vote for him. The entire game seems to be shooting from the hip, hard to tell if he is human or wolf. Lose cannon that I am interested in knowing one way or another, he is very dangerous as a human. I'm happy to know for sure soon.

TanCW (human): Votes for inactive dfamina round 1, then is eaten, so not much there. We know now damina was human, so this does not help.

talanpoe (human): Nothing helping to find wolves in either round he was alive, eaten round 2, which seems to be an odd choice of eating. Why not eat Shadows or Kruger after they successfully pegged a wolf? Is a wolf intentionally trying to get rid of inactives? Knowing now who had right to vote, the wolf would have been KM or Skinny. I could see Skinny eating an inactive round 2. I don't know if KM would.

tuku: Very inactive. If we had wolves eating inactives, why was she not eaten? Could she be a wolf? (this does not fit with current thoughts)

UNC: SPV's for someone not jpost. Suggests not sharing thoughts on clues once the seer is gone, and doesn't think wolves will be able to pick up on seer through who gets the RTV. Round 2 does not say anything productive, and round 3.... round 3.... here, he claims to be the seer??? Seems like an odd move as a human. Why on earth would he claim to be the seer knowing ID's are given? To save himself, maybe, but that would only make the seer less effective, and we all ended up seeing he was human anyway.

Skinny (WittyKitty): Round 1 was not productive. Round 2 questions who switched the votes at the last minute to prevent her from voting (first time I questioned if she was seer). She thought perhaps this happened because someone really wanted jpost (human) shot, or to prevent her from voting (on the chance she was seer), both of which would indicate wolf. She points out Kruger voted first, and doesn't think the seer would talk so soon (again, is she speaking from experience?) In round three, she says she is "unsure if mochs is a wolf" because buu was protecting me, this also made me wonder if she was the seer trying to make sure to communicate that she didn't actually know if I was a wolf. This idea that Skinny is the seer does not agree with what we currently know, so I am not leaning that direction any more, but it is where I was before everything exploded.

Yuffie: SPV Skinny, then changed to jpost to end the round (missing that Skinny didn't get a chance to vote). The back and forth between Skinny and Yuffie seems to be human in nature, not wolfish, in my opinion. She thought Shadow voted first and presented a theory based on that which was later shown to be false since Shadows voted second. She thinks it would be too risky for the seer to come out to their group in round 2. She later thinks there is no reason Shadows was trying to protect Kruger, which made me wonder if she could be a wolf protecting Shadows (if shadows was a wolf). SPV's deb in round 3 and then switches to UNC because she thinks Skinny is human (based on conversation in our TB).

I need to post this before I lose it, and will post again in a moment with some thoughts as to what this means.


"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 01:08AM Jul 31, 2013

Possible wolf groups:
Shadows, Yuffie
Shadows and one of ( Lance, Kruger, deb)
Kruger, Freak
Yuffie, WittyKitty

Most of what I found is not worth much now that we know what we know... all that came through while I was finishing taking notes on round 3. I was happy to see my theories agreed with most of who I now think is suspicious. It concerns me slightly that we have so many inactive, or not helpful people playing. I know the puzzles are important, but you can be helpful in the game even without the right to vote (I still don't have the right to vote for this round).

I almost didn't post this analysis, but there were several people who have mentioned they were waiting for it, so there it is. As I said above, I mostly wanted to get it out in case I was eaten and in case we find our assumptions to be untrue. I would not put it past the wolves to make bold faced lies about what they know. I'd like to think that enough of this has all come together so well that it must be the truth, but I'm still unsure. The most powerful thing the wolves have is knowledge. When you know everything, it is easier to make up new truths. I know this because I've done it before.

Anyway, I'm sticking with my post from above. If we do that, I think we will have no problem being successful.


"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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Limerickus


Posted: 01:28AM Jul 31, 2013

My method for clearing was the method we deployed in round 3...

Getting the vote and extending to the team with no wolves with the specified tiebreakers being

1) Most remaining players
2) Alphabetical

I did not mention it in full at the time because I was not expecting to be given the name of the team with no wolves... As such, I was prepared to try to make things happen really early, and try to get the team with no wolves to post votes early revealing themselves, but didn't want that strategy out in the open or they would just be targets. Wasn't necessary once Gizzer gave the team name. But, I realized dfam had potentially been in position to use that tactic at that phase, so, potentially knew a lot. I was a bit envious of that round, it had so much potential. And woooow at extending the vote to the team without me, thanks for that vote of confidence, reading it made my day xD

Mochs, otherwise your analysis is interesting, but I am confused with your second post, I cannot see Shadows being a wolf and you mention it yourself, I am confused.

Really, I have no idea what that section means, none of those people are really on my radar as wolves other than freak who... Is dead...

kmr, buu, Elios is my wolf list at the moment.
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mocha613Aus


Posted: 01:39AM Jul 31, 2013

limerick, that is the "if the wool is being pulled over our eyes and we have to go back to the drawing board" list. I still think my earlier post is who we need to go for with wolves.

"Wir müssen wissen, und wir werden wissen." -David Hilbert
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kmrutledgetth


Posted: 04:32AM Jul 31, 2013

I am kind of glad this round is about to end and night is about to start. After tonight, it may be a while before i get back on. anyway, i think that both mocha and limerick have a point and i am going to have to read both of your suggestions again, before i decide who i think is right, lol!


EDIT: To fix some spelling errors.


---This message was edited on 2013-08-01 18:21:43---

The faster I type in my password, the more secret agent-y I feel.
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Gizzer


Posted: 06:03AM Jul 31, 2013

Good morning!

Edit: There are 3 hours left in the round. I have to go out now, and do not expect to return before night falls in the game. If you have not yet earned the right to vote, you will not be able to do so.


---This message was edited on 2013-07-31 06:37:26---
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KRUGERGIRL14Aus


Posted: 07:21AM Jul 31, 2013

Is it just me or has Elios not posted to defend herself since it was stated that Sonic was divined as human? That leaves Eli to be the wolf in the group.

*vampscholar*
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EliosAus


Posted: 08:17AM Jul 31, 2013

KRUGERGIRL14 wrote:
Is it just me or has Elios not posted to defend herself since it was stated that Sonic was divined as human? That leaves Eli to be the wolf in the group.
Not sure how that would make me the wolf.. I wasn't on to post because I had things in RL keeping me from the computer. If I were really about to be shot, I would have tried harder to get back to defend myself.

Besides, what can I say to change anyone's mind? There are only 2 people with the right to vote. They've made up their minds to shoot me out of our group despite my initial statement. I don't fault them - like I said, it's 50/50 with my team and they have to start shooting somewhere. I don't think I'm the one of Team Charlie who deserves to be shot, but I understand how these things work. I'm ok with it. I'm not the first to be erroneously shot this game, and Humans will win despite that.


"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." - Chesterton
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Gizzer


Posted: 11:20AM Jul 31, 2013

Round 4 Challenge
What's the Deal?

Let's play some poker. We'll dispense with the betting.

Here is my hand:

?? K♣ 9♦ 10♣ J♥

Correctly identify my hole card (represented by ??) and you will earn the right to vote.

I don't want to receive 81 guesses, so each team gets only 3 attempts at this!


Hint 1: Are you familiar with five-card stud? Maybe you should read up on it.
Hint 2: I considered calling the challenge Revealing a mystery!
Hint 3: 81 is not an arbitrary number!
Bone Toss: Wait! Are you old enough to play? Can I see your drivers license?


Solution:

My hole card is the 8♥

These are the 5 cards used in the Photo Identification Quiz



Hint 1: Refers you to the Stud Poker page, where my comment was intended to redirect you to the Trivia section. (Many of you chased the wild Canada goose and researched Canadian Stud poker. Under the rules of that variation, the hand in the picture would be a Jack-high four-straight. This is interesting, but not relevant to the challenge.)
Hint 2: The word "mystery" is revealed when you take the photo identification quiz. Spoiler: This is one of the answers to the Braingle Scavenger Hunt.
Hint 3: There are 103 photos in the quiz. Once you have the URL for one image, you can replace its number with 81 to find the cards without playing the whole quiz until the cards come up. When I took the quiz, looking for an interesting photo for a challenge, I noticed that 81% of players had guessed this photo correctly. What a coincidence!
Bone Toss: You typically need a drivers license or some other form of photo identification to provide proof of age.


3 of the remaining players earned or were extended the right to vote this round.


Elios was a wolf . What revenge will her furry friends wreak tonight?

While the remaining wolves have dinner, feast your eyes on the next challenge.



Round 5 Challenge
An Ode-ious Challenge


Every so often, out of the blue
I get the urge to write a haiku!
Tell me who this one's about
And you will earn the right to vote!


Viewed on many screens
Silver panes 'neath flaming red
Emblematic name


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