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GD Guidelines and Questions for the Moderators

AuthorMessage
4demo

Posts: 1192

new Posted: 06:26PM Jul 14, 2009

With all due respect, I personally believe the moderators could in some instances be more lenient in their enforcement on the rules. I understand that there is a desire to keep the forums and all content respectable and respectful to all members, but I am getting the impression that the resulting tensions and animosities - please pardon my use of a word bearing such a strong negative tension, but I truly feel it is in order here - tend to create new and bigger problems. However, my intent in posting is not to demean either "side" (and it genuinely pains me to have to acknowledge that there are such rampant divisions forming). I simply wondered:

Would it be possible to have at least one topic in the GD forum, if not the burden of a new forum altogether, just for use by younger members and of course those who wish to participate in a more free, casual, and silly conversation? For example, I'm only vaguely familiar with the Nvrks topic, which seemed to create some small controversy recently, but the topic appeared harmless enough; though it did not serve to promote philosophical discussion, it did not degrade other members, link to racist or pornographic sites, etc. Would a single topic with content of that nature rather than a string of seemingly spam-friendly topics be permissible?

Essentially, I just want to ask the mods: Would you be willing to consider creating a forum for "kid talk" or however you wish to call it? I don't mean to advocate a spam topic, of course, but simply an even more informal topic similar to the BFR designated specially for the younger users of Braingle. I'm aware this wouldn't solve everything and may result in other glitches, but I think if handled properly, the net result could be a positive one. Many thanks in advance for your attention and consideration.


---This message was edited on 06:27PM Jul 14, 2009---

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it, however." - Richard Bach
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Brainy_1Aus

Posts: 6656

new Posted: 07:21PM Jul 14, 2009

Thanks for your thoughts and input 4demo. We will look into that possibility...as we have been trying to come up with something that will appease everyone. Please have patience and again, thanks! brainy1

I hope life isn't a joke, because I don't get it.....
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MattM462Aus

Posts: 1515

new Posted: 07:24PM Jul 14, 2009

I, too, think that may solve a few of the problems. Similar to the "Grownups" forum, what if there was a "Kids and Teens" forum to 'separate,' per se, the topics that the younger users want to create? This would have to be moderated, of course, but perhaps with more input from the users of the forum as to what they want to allow. I envision this being open to only those in the lower two tiers of the age categories.

EDIT: Sorry, Brainy. Didn't mean to rehash the issue after your response. It was a simulpost.


---This message was edited on 07:31PM Jul 14, 2009---
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Smithy*en

Posts: 987

new Posted: 08:32PM Jul 14, 2009

Whether intentional or not (I'm fairly sure it's the latter), what you're essentially proposing is a Forum especially for spam. I can think of no other topics that would thrive in such a forum that couldn't exist harmoniously in one of the existing forums. The "Nvrks" topic has now reopened in the Games forum and it has been acknowleded as a mistake to have locked it - all further discussion on the matter is pointless as it has been resolved. For general, informal chat we have the chat room, private messages and talk boxes.

"They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese?" "No man, they got the metric system. The wouldn't know what a Quarter Pounder is."
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MattM462Aus

Posts: 1515

new Posted: 08:58PM Jul 14, 2009

Then what's the point of the Grownups forum? All of those topics could exist elsewhere, I'm sure.
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4demo

Posts: 1192

new Posted: 10:26PM Jul 14, 2009

Thanks for the prompt responses, Brainy and Smithy! In particular, thanks for explaining why this wouldn't be necessary or a good idea, Smithy. Understanding that, I think it would make more sense to not implement that idea. I just wanted to acknowledge your replies and state that hearing the other side, I've changed my mind on this issue. Thanks again for your help and time.

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it, however." - Richard Bach
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Brainy_1Aus

Posts: 6656

new Posted: 10:38PM Jul 14, 2009

You are very welcome 4demo. It's not like we Mods don't try to make everyone happy, but sometimes, things just don't work for various reasons. Believe me, we all talk and discuss everything and try to find ways to do things. I'm glad that Smithy was able to help you to understand and I'm glad that I was able to help too! Thanks!! brainy1


PS...Thanks Smithy!!!


I hope life isn't a joke, because I don't get it.....
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froggyggAusmod

Magical Sorceress Frog
Posts: 9042


new Posted: 12:17AM Jul 15, 2009

iforgotbraingle wrote:
A-What are the rules regarding using good English? Do we need punctuation and sppppeeeeelllllllllinjg? Where is the line.
B-On that note, what's the rules regarding correcting someone?
C-If this site is supposed to be family-friendly, why does everyone need to act like an adult? 0_0

A. The Forum Rules do ask that you read your post and check for spelling and grammar mistakes. I think that everyone enjoys reading a well written post as opposed to one which contains spelling, grammar, or chat-speak.

B. Correcting someone is not covered in the Forum Rules, but I would hope members do not actively seek out errors just to embarrass or belittle any member who makes a mistake, after all we are all human and do make mistakes.

C. No one has said that all members have to act like adults. Just read the posts in the forums and you will see plenty of posts made by the younger members with no one telling them to grow up or post like an adult. In fact, many of the younger members ask for advice from the older members and the older members are more than happy to help.


As to the question posted by grayma, I have sent her a PM asking what she was specifically asking about. From what I understand, she was asking if the amount of spam posts being deleted would have an impact on the Advertisement revenues for the site. As for that answer, the Advertisements seem to be connected to the number of hits (visits) connected to the site and not the actual posts. If anyone needs a more specific answer to this, I'm sure Jake would be happy to answer it for you.

Thank you Smithy for all your input and your clear answer to 4demo's question. Also, thanks demo for your concerns and suggestions.


---This message was edited on 01:27AM Jul 15, 2009---

SMILE and people will wonder what you are up to!
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SunroseAus

Posts: 3490

new Posted: 06:26AM Jul 15, 2009

Thanks to which ever posted admitted that it was a mistake to lock the topic. Cause I had thought I had misunderstood what "Family Friendly" meant and after hearing that it was a mistake cleared that up. At least now I know I didn't misunderstand and that is a relief. Now it was answered

Thanks ~ Suni


Made your bed, now lay in it....But you can always add a bedside table, change the sheets, take out the trash...it doesn't have to stay the same unless you want it to.
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iforgotbraingleAus

Posts: 4876

new Posted: 10:28AM Jul 15, 2009

The problem with a "Kid Talk" forum/topic is that (besides the fact that teens would be adverse to sharing a forum with younger kids while adults get theirs to themselves) is that it wouldn't generate much discussion. A lot of it would generate pure spam(as that would probably end up being allowed) and that quickly kills anything. (Pure spam being "fhqsdjhuian gfhjtwnhfw3rtyuiaf ngsetu768erg nvmkdjsdbvs rtyweruvgyubst aefhvsgbv usfnmtnsefuivgn engt erubvgwm etgerhvn wt4gasdrhugf we5nmtbqwerui gfw4bgsyb vfw" Actual discussions are not spam). It would also degenerate to a bunch of games being played(see the High Karma Forum). Plus I'm sure there'd end up being adult moderators which would screw up the whole point. Not to mention it's rather degrading to try to put everyone under 18 into their own little box. General Discussion really can't expect to get too deep because then the topic should be somewhere else. But, of course, GD is most active(I'm ignoring the pseudo-spam-filled-land of Games) so people are more likely to post there where they can get a response within a few minutes as opposed to another forum where it can be inactive for days or even weeks.(heck, hasn't Sports gone dead for over a month before?)
Private messages don't fill the gap because that's only two people.
Talkboxes don't fill the gap because most teens can't exactly get a membership and those that do usually are the type to be sucking up and the like(*glares at oh-so-obvious user*). So that's only ten people, and that wouldn't get too much, either(Although "Dead Talkbox" does quite well even though most of the topics wouldn't fly in here. The moderator seems to be lax enough to make things work.)
Note that teens don't complain when adults go on their endless rants and we can sorta go around them if so inclined, yet it seems like it's impossible for any adults to get around the posts they aren't too interested in.
I bet if this topic was opened by a non-mod it would be locked by now. Heck, it would've been locked a while ago.


Well then.
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kimberlykayAus

Posts: 3410

new Posted: 02:51PM Jul 15, 2009

MattM462 wrote:
Then what's the point of the Grownups forum? All of those topics could exist elsewhere, I'm sure.


The "point of the Grownups forum" is to give the adults on this site a place to interact with each other in a responsible and mature manner without the input from the younger members on site disturbing the flow of conversation. There are many other forums, including the BFR for the youth of Braingle to interact. Honestly, many adults here felt the BFR had been taken over by the younger members which is why the "Grown Up" forum was created in the first place.

~KK~


"Good friends are like stars...You don't always see them, but you know they are always there."
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dolphingurl12Aus

Posts: 5492

new Posted: 03:03PM Jul 15, 2009

I usually stay out of these debates, but I was a little offended by that post.

I'm a younger member. I'm sorry if my presence "disturbs the flow" of your conversation, but doesn't that go both ways? Don't older members disturb the flow of the younger member's conversations as well? I don't think that's a good argument for the adults getting an exclusive forum and younger members not. We are not all IFB, and I don't really like getting lumped into a disturbing category like that. I think plenty of the younger members' conversations are as valid as the older ones.

Also, adults, having access to their own money much easier than teens, can create talkboxes without kids in them to have their conversations undisturbed, but kids typically cannot. I think this is a valid argument for having a forum for younger members as well. It could be modded by a few responsible younger members, too maybe, to avoid some of the problems with moderation. I'm sure there's a few responsible teens that could do it. I can provide names if anyone finds that necessary.

I'm sorry if any of this comes across harshly, but that is just not fair to treat all of younger braingle like an annoyance. Honestly, I used to be intimidated by the BFR because all it was was adults talking and I didn't feel I had any right to post there. Now it feel it's much more universally accessible, which is what it should be, "overrun" or not.

Thank you anyone who read all that.


Writing is the only thing that, when I do it, I don't feel I should be doing something else. - Gloria Steinem
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iforgotbraingleAus

Posts: 4876

new Posted: 03:09PM Jul 15, 2009

We are not all IFB, and I don't really like getting lumped into a disturbing category like that.

I don't mean to drive this offtopic, but this has to qualify as a personal attack.
And it's not like I'm the absolute worst. I mean, at least I don't go trying to offend people


Well then.
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RGW4Ausmod

Posts: 1233

new Posted: 03:13PM Jul 15, 2009

Question: What is a BFR and an IFB?

I thought we were suppose to post in actual words so everyone can understand and not just those that love to text message and use shortcuts.


A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. -Albert Einstein-
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iforgotbraingleAus

Posts: 4876

new Posted: 03:22PM Jul 15, 2009

BFR--Braingle Family Room--Topic in the General Discussion forum where you can supposedly talk about whatever is on your mind.
IFB--iforgotbraingle-Me =D


---This message was edited on 03:23PM Jul 15, 2009---

Well then.
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dolphingurl12Aus

Posts: 5492

new Posted: 03:23PM Jul 15, 2009

iforgotbraingle wrote:
We are not all IFB, and I don't really like getting lumped into a disturbing category like that.

I don't mean to drive this offtopic, but this has to qualify as a personal attack.
And it's not like I'm the absolute worst. I mean, at least I don't go trying to offend people


Oh, I should've reread more carefully. I wasn't trying to call you disturbing; I meant categorizing people was the disturbing thing! And I used your name because, let's face it, we all know the Mods (ie older members) have a problem with you and likewise. This you cannot dispute. I was trying to say that they assume all younger members want to do is spam for the sake of it, to prove a point about moderation or whatever, and again, you must admit you do this.
Sorry about the confusion.

And RGW4, IFB = Iforgotbraingle and BRF = Braingle Family Room. My post's intended audience would easily understand these acronymns. My post is three paragraphs, so I don't think I posess a strong love of shortcuts.


Writing is the only thing that, when I do it, I don't feel I should be doing something else. - Gloria Steinem
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iforgotbraingleAus

Posts: 4876

new Posted: 03:31PM Jul 15, 2009

Oh, I should've reread more carefully. I wasn't trying to call you disturbing; I meant categorizing people was the disturbing thing!
Oh, my bad, must not have interpretted you correctly. Just a bit used to being attacked, y'know?

And I used your name because, let's face it, we all know the Mods (ie older members) have a problem with you and likewise. This you cannot dispute.
And oddly enough we have the same goal! (make Braingle better)

I was trying to say that they assume all younger members want to do is spam for the sake of it

Actually most of the pure spam comes from either a few younger kids(below the teen level(in which case it's illegal for them to even have an account based on COPPA)) and the users who come, spam, and then leave once they realize actual discussion takes place here.

you must admit you do this.

No. . .I don't. I only intend the best. I feel many of my posts are misinterpretted and others are just of different interest than what adults want to talk about. I have never claimed to be a good communicator, and that's probably what's preventing me from getting my message across.

BARF = Braingle Family Room

LOL


Well then.
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dolphingurl12Aus

Posts: 5492

new Posted: 05:25PM Jul 15, 2009

Good then, I think we're almost on the same page, IFB.

But I think this conversation should halt in fear of my original posting being lost in the mire, and I really want an answer on that one.


Writing is the only thing that, when I do it, I don't feel I should be doing something else. - Gloria Steinem
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Smithy*en

Posts: 987

new Posted: 05:42PM Jul 15, 2009

Okay, seriously folks. This is getting ridiculous. The forums are meant to be a place for people to talk, discuss, debate and generally enjoy themselves, and we've all managed to turn it into a place where we argue, complain and insult.

MattM462 wrote:
Then what's the point of the Grownups forum? All of those topics could exist elsewhere, I'm sure.


Surely the logical conclusion to this strain of thought is "that forum is unnecessary", rather than "we need more forums like it"?" I don't know why the Grownups forum was introduced but I think it's probably done more harm than good in creating a much clearer divide in the community. IFB, with all due respect. it's quite difficult to take your views on the matter seriously when your presence in the "Kids" or "Adults" forum would oscillate such as the whim of your everchanging personal settings. KK, also with all due respect, I think it's a little unfair to simply blame all the younger users for "disturbing the flow of conversation" - as Dolphin said, some younger users have contributed greatly to the community - and on the flip side, of course, some older users less so. I've spent most of my stint on Braingle as one of the "kids" and I'd hate to think my peers here saw me merely as a hinderence to the mature conversation.

Now, to the recently emerging Mods vs. The People war. I'm not going to take sides, as I think both groups are guilty of not exactly helping the situation. (As Sports Mod, I barely consider myself a moderator, so happily fall somewhere in the middle of the two categories anyway. ) Apologies if the following sounds a little patronising or arrogant, but it's just my thoughts.

To "The People" - if you have a concern, question or complaint about something happening in the forums, politely and calmly PM the Moderator in question, pointing out (in a friendly way) what the problem is, and I'm sure they will do their utmost to solve the situation or explain thoroughly their actions. Continuously posting in topics lamenting vaguely about nonspecific incidents of overzealous moderating isn't going to resolve anything. In this thread alone, Swaff, 4demo and dolphin have all demonstrated that questions or even complaints can be presented in a polite, helpful and respectful manner - and as such will be met with equally meritous replies.

To "The Mods" - like any good referee of a sports game, the indicator of a good performance is a subtle presence; try to avoid stepping in whenever possible, so the forums don't feel too overrun by moderation. Obviously if something is offensive, insulting or just plain spam then step in - but remember, above all, Braingle is a place intended for fun, not a strict filing cabinet of well organised thoughts and views.

Now, if it's not too much to ask... can everyone calm down and stop being at each others' throats constantly? If we all want to improve the forums then we have to work with each other, not against.

Anyway, apologies for going on a bit of a rant there, and thank you to anyone that kept up with all that!


"They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese?" "No man, they got the metric system. The wouldn't know what a Quarter Pounder is."
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bigSWAFF_69_Aus

Posts: 2414

new Posted: 05:45PM Jul 15, 2009

kimberlykay wrote:

The "point of the Grownups forum" is to give the adults on this site a place to interact with each other in a responsible and mature manner without the input from the younger members on site disturbing the flow of conversation. There are many other forums, including the BFR for the youth of Braingle to interact.

I'm going to have to agree with dolphingurl. I apologize if any of my opinions/input disturbs the flow of more... stimulating... conversation.

I'm not going to re-preach my previous post (which seemed to flow under the radar...), but I kinda feel if you want respect you have to give it out yourself. I hardly think alienating everybody under the age of 18 with a comment like that is the way to gain respect.

To be honest, I'd never visit a "Teen/Child Forum". It just wouldn't appeal to me personally. However, I think the double-standard that "adults" can have their own special forum and "teens" cannot is pretty ridiculous.

I'm not saying I demand we have a "Teen Forum". At any one point I've been a member of every "Special" forum (apart from the Grownup one), and all they amount to (with the Mods forum an exception) are re-hashes of current topics. Games, BFR clones, etc. It'd be pointless. I'm also not saying the Grownup forum should be removed, it's not like that would do any good.

I just sense a lot of hypocrisy on these boards... Well, on the Internet in general, but that's beside the point. Misunderstandings escalate to huge ordeals like this. There's absolutely no reason people should get this worked up over things. Certain users are too quick to blame all their problems on the Mods, and Mods are much too quick to cry "bashing". We all should just take our problems and "hug it out", and stop dwelling on such stupid issues.

It almost seems this website can't exist without some sort of drama. It's like high school, only we're all over-dramatic cheerleaders.
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