The Werewolf Game
Game #3214: Revenge of the Puppet Masters
This private game is moderated by Jayo. Please read the rules and contact the moderator with any questions or concerns about this game.
This game finished in 8 rounds.
Deb was caught with her hands on the strings and has been cast out, relieving some pressure on the beleaguered Puppets! Waylander was becoming a nuisance - with the Puppet Masters were no longer willing to tolerate.
The situation; Your Seer lives, as do 2 Puppeteers
Round Four Puppetry
Jojo must vote for Brin
LR must vote for Hoo
The Saboteur has again been a bit unlucky!
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 08:05:24---
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
The situation; Your Seer lives, as do 2 Puppeteers
Round Four Puppetry
Jojo must vote for Brin
LR must vote for Hoo
The Saboteur has again been a bit unlucky!
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 08:05:24---
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Voting hoo for the time being , not for protecting deb in and of itself, but for latching om to a tenuous frame theory too readily
Dcf is probably human, it makes no sense for a wolf to posit a '2 for 1' shooting ploy when their first target is a wolf
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 08:14:40---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Dcf is probably human, it makes no sense for a wolf to posit a '2 for 1' shooting ploy when their first target is a wolf
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 08:14:40---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Not sure where to cast my vote. Going with Spider again but can/will change if I see anything later. But I'm going with my gut for now.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
And if deb was human....you'd be voting for me presumably.....strange take
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
My vote is for Brin. She seemed suspicious previously with weak rationale for her non-majority votes, but in the last round especially with her overly defensive post and her vote just to 'remove the target' from her back. I would consider others who voted for Deb 'cleared', but Brin's vote did nothing but end the round early. Granted she took her vote off the Human Sophie earlier, but even Brin admitted it would do no good.
Voting Brin, and willing to hear arguments for/from others...
Sorry, nothing to see here folks, keep moving.
Voting Brin, and willing to hear arguments for/from others...
Sorry, nothing to see here folks, keep moving.
I do not have very much experience with brin but i dont think she is a wolf, at least not yet. Someone who would come after me merely for 'starting' (although I think she's mixed up on how the KZ majority actually formed..i was on Deb and switched to KZ for defense) a majority on a human, would be hesistant to do so herself all the way back in round 2 (since I know Im human, I at least know this perspective is valid)
Futhermore, her renewed attack on me is sort of 'tone deaf' to the flow of the game and the Spider v Deb 'showdown' a wolf would probably be conceding that im off the hook for now and move on after the lay of the land has shifted, not stick to a gut read from rounds ago.
Lastly, in regards to your comment about her Deb vote. I agree that it in no way clears her, but I think she would be less defeatist about the vote (knowing she's about to finish a wolf) while making it. You tend to see 'let's hope she's a wolf!' type comments from wolves in that position.
I still believe Hoo constitutes the best vote, but I'd like to hear other perspectives
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Futhermore, her renewed attack on me is sort of 'tone deaf' to the flow of the game and the Spider v Deb 'showdown' a wolf would probably be conceding that im off the hook for now and move on after the lay of the land has shifted, not stick to a gut read from rounds ago.
Lastly, in regards to your comment about her Deb vote. I agree that it in no way clears her, but I think she would be less defeatist about the vote (knowing she's about to finish a wolf) while making it. You tend to see 'let's hope she's a wolf!' type comments from wolves in that position.
I still believe Hoo constitutes the best vote, but I'd like to hear other perspectives
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
dcf, I did over react to LR's post. I took it personally, The Mrs Brady thing and the 'lame' remark struck me as a personal attack. It still gets my haunches up and I'm not sure why. I've never had any personal issue with anyone on this site.
Finty has been an exemplary player and she's fooled me before, so when she mentioned that her vote would go to LR could she vote on her own, I changed my vote to him - and [it felt like] I got attacked for it. That was the target I was removing from my back. If I could have deleted my post after some thought, I would have.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Finty has been an exemplary player and she's fooled me before, so when she mentioned that her vote would go to LR could she vote on her own, I changed my vote to him - and [it felt like] I got attacked for it. That was the target I was removing from my back. If I could have deleted my post after some thought, I would have.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
So the wolves either have Hoo in their party and are having me vote for him to make that option look less plausible or are taking advantage of that possibility to create a mob. Spider posted early, I believe, and likely didn't see the voting lists yet (correct me if I'm wrong) but he is drawing that to attention. I'll wait for Hoo's reaction.
I agree that Brin behaved suspiciously . Personally I dislike when players end the round early because of how unnecessary that is and how it seems to stifle further conversation. I don't recall how much time was left, but there was absolutely no need to cut it short. I could see a fellow wolf trying to kill her partner off early to a) look like a human and b) make sure her partner doesn't say anything incriminating. Especially when there was no helping her.
Spider arguing with Deb and Brin (assuming she is a wolf in this hypothesis) would make him seem less likely as a potential wolf, but in this situation the wolves would have not only shot one of their own last round but also set her up to be shot. In the situation that Brin is a wolf, it is obvious that the wolves are playing dangerously close to each other.
I await further dialogue.
Edit: Players should be able to insult tactics without insulting the players themselves. Players absolutely hate when I keep zombies alive in games, but I don't care. The Brady remark was tongue in cheek. Don't take it personally. I was insulting stereotypical new stories, not you.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 10:41:25---
Why didn't the Libertarian cross the road?
I agree that Brin behaved suspiciously . Personally I dislike when players end the round early because of how unnecessary that is and how it seems to stifle further conversation. I don't recall how much time was left, but there was absolutely no need to cut it short. I could see a fellow wolf trying to kill her partner off early to a) look like a human and b) make sure her partner doesn't say anything incriminating. Especially when there was no helping her.
Spider arguing with Deb and Brin (assuming she is a wolf in this hypothesis) would make him seem less likely as a potential wolf, but in this situation the wolves would have not only shot one of their own last round but also set her up to be shot. In the situation that Brin is a wolf, it is obvious that the wolves are playing dangerously close to each other.
I await further dialogue.
Edit: Players should be able to insult tactics without insulting the players themselves. Players absolutely hate when I keep zombies alive in games, but I don't care. The Brady remark was tongue in cheek. Don't take it personally. I was insulting stereotypical new stories, not you.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 10:41:25---
Why didn't the Libertarian cross the road?
jojo appears to be an MIA , so perhaps Brin is an option (but not my top option) just because I don't see too many potential suspects now.
Would like to hear from Hoo for sure though
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Would like to hear from Hoo for sure though
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
It's all good. As I said, I over reacted. Too much going on at home and I let it spill over. I'm usually have tougher skin than that. Any way my apologies to you and Jayo for my rant.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
At the point when I voted deb, there were four votes. Yet I cast the tipping point vote on a wolf. If you think that's worth voting for me, you've gone loopy.
LR, after losing a wolf, I don't think the wolves would risk forcing a vote on one of their own this round. Makes me think brin is a safe bet too.
Really hoping the seer has some info soon, but kudos for staying undetected thus far.
Not sure who to vote for just yet, putting a temp vote on LR.
LR, after losing a wolf, I don't think the wolves would risk forcing a vote on one of their own this round. Makes me think brin is a safe bet too.
Really hoping the seer has some info soon, but kudos for staying undetected thus far.
Not sure who to vote for just yet, putting a temp vote on LR.
It looks like you were the 5th vote in a landslide (Brin had sinced moved off me, dissolving almost all pressure)
I could be wrong about this, so will keep lines of communication open
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
I could be wrong about this, so will keep lines of communication open
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Voting Spider is absurd at this juncture. He's almost certainly human. Placing SPV. LR and Brin high on list.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
Although Brin being a vote target this round after just losing a wolf muddies that slightly. It's probably worth looking into the puppet/target choices now in further analysis.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
The_Spider wrote:
If you call 4 votes a landslide, then yes. But I don't.
I wasn't convinced it was deb last round, but I did feel that, as I said, it was at least a justifiable vote.
I'd like to hear from Fintpops.
It looks like you were the 5th vote in a landslide (Brin had sinced moved off me, dissolving almost all pressure)
I could be wrong about this, so will keep lines of communication open
I could be wrong about this, so will keep lines of communication open
If you call 4 votes a landslide, then yes. But I don't.
I wasn't convinced it was deb last round, but I did feel that, as I said, it was at least a justifiable vote.
I'd like to hear from Fintpops.
Rereading last round I've actually completely cooled on brin, she was playing far too close to deb when she was highly likely to be shot putting her in a hugely risky position. The non committal display from Hoo last round was concerning, and LR general hypothesising on unknowns was equally concerning, which has also bled into this round. I could probably get behind either this round.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
LR general hypothesising on unknowns was equally concerning, which has also bled into this round
That's not concerning; that's how I play. You don't get anywhere if you don't hypothesize on what COULD be and how that would work.Personally, I'm not buying your defense of Brin thus far, either, Skybet.
Why didn't the Libertarian cross the road?
'kay, I hate to bring up stuff from the past, but I want the chance to correct a misconception from last round.
LR, last round you said
That's a wrong interpretation of my post, which was
And bRIN, I really appreciate your voting for LogicalRoger for me last round. And sorry for any trouble that cool move caused you.
DrHoo wrote:
As for the puppet masters involving me in their schemes, I have no clue. I'm a new name, I guess, and then later on, I think they were banking on a decent frame. A fill-in-the-blank for Waylander's suspicion that they'd be involving a few wolves in their puppetry early on to mask them. It's a set-up, though.
I'm voting LogicalRoger again, for now. It's the only thing sticking out to me at the moment. I do not suspect Spider or Skybet; could be I'm hoodwinked by 'em, but if so, they're doing a bang up job of Wolfing. I feel dcf525 is more likely Human than Wolf. I'm not sure either way about bRIN or DrHoo. So, that's where I am for right now.
[Edited because I can't get the spacing on the quotes the way I want it. ]
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 13:10:50---
LR, last round you said
Fintops and Brin seem set on me purely because I haven't been very active. Pretty lame tactics, especially when the reason to shoot said inactives isn't due to night timeouts, but not necessarily wolfish.
That's a wrong interpretation of my post, which was
I'm most suspicious of LogicalRoger right now. He wanted to vote kzmonopoly last round because he was in a majority. That's all he said all round. He did mention that he had no real time to post, so I guess he never got back on. But to me that's way wolfier. Hardest part about being a wolf (for me, anyway) is determining who to vote for so that you don't look like you already knew the outcome, good or bad. That's why pre-determined majorities are great.
I suspected you because you joined a majority BECAUSE it was a majority, not because you were quiet/unable to post. I mentioned your inability to get back due to RL because I didn't want to discount that you might have changed your vote or posted more had you had the chance. But I stress again, I suspect wolfish behavior from those who glom on to a majority, because that's easy.And bRIN, I really appreciate your voting for LogicalRoger for me last round. And sorry for any trouble that cool move caused you.
DrHoo wrote:
I'd like to hear from Fintpops.
What would you like to hear about? I know last round deb mentioned that she wanted to hear more from me in regard to my "panic attack." Now that we know she was a wolf, can we please see that as a ploy to frame me? My comment from round one was just in fun; like, "Ack! Don't vote me!" I'm not as seasoned a WWG player as the rest of you, so little thrills like that are still exciting to me. Like a giddy little kid playing tag. Don't make me regret having some spark of fun by misreading it as a panicked wolf. I don't know what else to say on the topic. As for the puppet masters involving me in their schemes, I have no clue. I'm a new name, I guess, and then later on, I think they were banking on a decent frame. A fill-in-the-blank for Waylander's suspicion that they'd be involving a few wolves in their puppetry early on to mask them. It's a set-up, though.
I'm voting LogicalRoger again, for now. It's the only thing sticking out to me at the moment. I do not suspect Spider or Skybet; could be I'm hoodwinked by 'em, but if so, they're doing a bang up job of Wolfing. I feel dcf525 is more likely Human than Wolf. I'm not sure either way about bRIN or DrHoo. So, that's where I am for right now.
[Edited because I can't get the spacing on the quotes the way I want it. ]
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 13:10:50---
At this point, I'm thinking that Spider is most likely human. Everyone else has been pretty confusing. I'll put LR in a clear majority for now.
What's up, jojobaby? You missed last round and haven't posted this one... although there is a vote.
Is it possible the wolves are targeting (in the puppet regard) one of their own (for example Fint) to lessen the likelihood of them being divined (a puppeted seer cant divine their target). Dont really suspect this strategy or Fint, but just pondering.
Still submerged in football, will post later, don't really see much against Log at this point but will review a bit later
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Still submerged in football, will post later, don't really see much against Log at this point but will review a bit later
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Sorry I worked and forgot to check in. And this time I'm puppet so I had to vote. And have been reviewing the comments...not really sure on any suspicions yet :/
So Music you want to put me in a majority? For what? Just to create a majority? This isn't Boss. As I've mentioned before, harping on people excessively in this game will only lead to early rounds and easy pickings. Fin, by your own logic, you should be voting for Music right now, not me.
Let's clear up another misconception, though. Okay, so you didn't vote for me for being quiet; you voted for me for apparently voting for someone in a majority. But that is invalid because I did no such thing! I'll admit that I misspoke in the game before, but look at this voting list from just a few posts after mine:
KZ's majority actually happened AFTER I put my vote on him and the only reason I voted for him was because he WASN'T in a majority at that time. Hopefully that's cleared that up and we can all agree to vote for Music instead.
Seriously, though, creating a majority on a guy who can't change his vote? If you're a human, you're not helping us win, Music.
Edit: To correct logistics
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 17:05:49---
Why didn't the Libertarian cross the road?
Let's clear up another misconception, though. Okay, so you didn't vote for me for being quiet; you voted for me for apparently voting for someone in a majority. But that is invalid because I did no such thing! I'll admit that I misspoke in the game before, but look at this voting list from just a few posts after mine:
bRIN voted for Skybet
dcf525 voted for bRIN
debc1 voted for jojobaby29
DrHoo voted for Waylander
Fintpops voted for dcf525
HarryPutter voted for debc1
jojobaby29 voted for The_Spider
kzmonopoly voted for musicneverdies
LogicalRoger voted for kzmonopoly
musicneverdies voted for Waylander
Skybet voted for Fintpops
The_Spider voted for musicneverdies
Waylander voted for Fintpops
dcf525 voted for bRIN
debc1 voted for jojobaby29
DrHoo voted for Waylander
Fintpops voted for dcf525
HarryPutter voted for debc1
jojobaby29 voted for The_Spider
kzmonopoly voted for musicneverdies
LogicalRoger voted for kzmonopoly
musicneverdies voted for Waylander
Skybet voted for Fintpops
The_Spider voted for musicneverdies
Waylander voted for Fintpops
KZ's majority actually happened AFTER I put my vote on him and the only reason I voted for him was because he WASN'T in a majority at that time. Hopefully that's cleared that up and we can all agree to vote for Music instead.
Seriously, though, creating a majority on a guy who can't change his vote? If you're a human, you're not helping us win, Music.
Edit: To correct logistics
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 17:05:49---
Why didn't the Libertarian cross the road?
I forgot that you can't change your vote. And maybe the "clear majority" was a poor choice of words. That's not really what I wanted to say. I'm not very eloquent. Anyways, I'm not going to change my vote. I think other players have done a pretty good job of explaining why you are a suspect right now, and I don't see the need in reiterating it.
And for what my word is worth, I am human. Just a human who needs to think things through a little more before I post.
Do you mean Fintpops, music? Because my vote for LR was a temp vote - an SPV if you like.
But my reading of this round leads me to another suspect and I will be voting for brin.
Edited for stupidity on my part.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 17:51:32---
But my reading of this round leads me to another suspect and I will be voting for brin.
Edited for stupidity on my part.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 17:51:32---
Well, both Fintpops and Skybet, yes.
He's as good a choice as any, I also want to point out that I said, "for now" in my previous post declaring my vote. LR's defensive reaction made me want to keep my vote on him. Although to be fair, I might have done the same thing, just not in so strong a wording.
He's as good a choice as any, I also want to point out that I said, "for now" in my previous post declaring my vote. LR's defensive reaction made me want to keep my vote on him. Although to be fair, I might have done the same thing, just not in so strong a wording.
Going to review, but off the cuff.....I don't see how Log's vote being unchangeable has any bearing on your decision, if you believe him to be the best vote, vote him. It would be a different story if there were forced votes ON him, then I could see issuing some caution, but in this case, his comments toward you are largely irrelevant and vaguely 'bullying'' I mean moreso in a guilt tripping sense.
Will have a look over the game now
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 18:50:11---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Will have a look over the game now
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 18:50:11---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Changing my vote to Dr Hoo but as it will put us in a 3 way tie, I will be the one shot unless someone else pops in. I hope some one changes their mind. I'd rather see a puppet master shot than a puppet.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
I do not believe the alphabet plays the role you guys think it does in some cases, and even when it does, in this case, it goes by the person voting, not the voter, being near the top of the alphabet is a decisive advantage (in so far as situation in which the tie is broken by the alphabet)
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Just checking in...there are some interesting arguments here, and some other possible suspects are starting to stand out, but nothing yet has convinced me to change my vote. Glad to see Jojo in the mix though.
Edit to add, in the twenty-something games I've played (which I am sure is much fewer than some of you), only once have I seen a tie *not* to broken by alphabet; so, not 100% but pretty close.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 18:59:03---
Sorry, nothing to see here folks, keep moving.
Edit to add, in the twenty-something games I've played (which I am sure is much fewer than some of you), only once have I seen a tie *not* to broken by alphabet; so, not 100% but pretty close.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 18:59:03---
Sorry, nothing to see here folks, keep moving.
LogicalRoger wrote:
And now I'm glad to see I'm not the only one "freaking out" over a couple votes on them.
The_Spider wrote:
Okay, so you didn't vote for me for being quiet; you voted for me for apparently voting for someone in a majority. But that is invalid because I did no such thing! I'll admit that I misspoke in the game before ... KZ's majority actually happened AFTER I put my vote on him and the only reason I voted for him was because he WASN'T in a majority at that time.
Hey, man, I'm only going off of what you yourself posted. From Round 2:I'm mostly voting for KZ because he's in a majority, though I'll admit I could vote for Spider due to it being his decision to create that majority, but then I'd create a majority.
I don't care whether he was ACTUALLY in a majority, at that time, later, or never. I'm going based off of what you THOUGHT at the time. Your words clearly say "because he is in a majority." You further clarify that at that time you thought he was in a majority by saying Spider created the majority, etc and so forth. All we have to go by in this game is what we all type out. And that's what you typed.And now I'm glad to see I'm not the only one "freaking out" over a couple votes on them.
The_Spider wrote:
a puppeted seer cant divine their target)
So the Seer can't divine the person s/he voted for to shoot? I did not know that. Interesting...
The first tie I looked up upon searching was broken 'non-alphabetically' (by the person being voted for) the game code MAY break the tie by the VOTER alphabetically, but this alphabet misconception seems to be a heavy heavy dose of confirmation bias.
From my 'gun UN control game' picked completely at random and first tie I came across in searching
debc1 voted for Jayo
DrHoo voted for debc1
ElmoAbby voted for Waylander
HarryPutter voted for whoviandeb
Jayo voted for whoviandeb
scrub88 voted for whoviandeb
Waylander voted for debc1
whoviandeb voted for debc1
At dusk, whoviandeb was shot with the silver bullet.
The Seer is divining the identity of debc1
Actually no, this breaks both voter/votee alphabetical rules, I believe this is largely a myth, the exception of a MoO tie, where I am pretty sure the 1st vote has priority
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 19:05:04---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
From my 'gun UN control game' picked completely at random and first tie I came across in searching
debc1 voted for Jayo
DrHoo voted for debc1
ElmoAbby voted for Waylander
HarryPutter voted for whoviandeb
Jayo voted for whoviandeb
scrub88 voted for whoviandeb
Waylander voted for debc1
whoviandeb voted for debc1
At dusk, whoviandeb was shot with the silver bullet.
The Seer is divining the identity of debc1
Actually no, this breaks both voter/votee alphabetical rules, I believe this is largely a myth, the exception of a MoO tie, where I am pretty sure the 1st vote has priority
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 19:05:04---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
IDK, every time I've been in a tie, I've been the one taken out. Unless there was someone above me.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Voter Tiebreaker Example #2
caberet voted for musicneverdies
debc1 voted for mnkgyl
HarryPutter voted for musicneverdies
MDCTeasers voted for mnkgyl
mnkgyl voted for musicneverdies
musicneverdies voted for mnkgyl
At dusk, musicneverdies was shot with the silver bullet.
From game #3202, Shakespeare Parody...again, if there is a tie breaker rule, its possible the #1 positioned voter gets priority. I can be convinced this is true, but these are the only two ties I have noticed in the games I have looked at (my past 10) so far. There simply is minimal evidence the computer shoots in alphabetical order (by vote receiver) Again, these are not cherry picked cases, they are the only two ties I have found so far, it's quite possible, these are outliers, but i have no reason to believe so
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 19:15:13---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
caberet voted for musicneverdies
debc1 voted for mnkgyl
HarryPutter voted for musicneverdies
MDCTeasers voted for mnkgyl
mnkgyl voted for musicneverdies
musicneverdies voted for mnkgyl
At dusk, musicneverdies was shot with the silver bullet.
From game #3202, Shakespeare Parody...again, if there is a tie breaker rule, its possible the #1 positioned voter gets priority. I can be convinced this is true, but these are the only two ties I have noticed in the games I have looked at (my past 10) so far. There simply is minimal evidence the computer shoots in alphabetical order (by vote receiver) Again, these are not cherry picked cases, they are the only two ties I have found so far, it's quite possible, these are outliers, but i have no reason to believe so
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 19:15:13---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Summary of analysis
Round 1:
Only thing I note is Fint's 'panicked' comment. The panic doesn't bother me, but her extreme contortion to avoid voting Brin is worth noting.
Fint wrote
Also note, Jojo added a third vote to Brin, this is would be an unprecedented level of aggression for wolf partners, I think Jojo/Brin can be nearly ruled out (I never played with Jojo before so not 100% certain if such a wildcard move is in her playbook)
Summary Conclusion: Rule out Brin/Jojo
Round 2
Really not a lot here. Waylanders' 'Shoot a puppet/puppeteer comment may be relevant as we fill in these blanks
Jojo to vote Spider
Wallander to vote Fint
HP to vote Deb
I don't see Brin as an aggressive player, her putting me into the mix would make sense if she needed to play indirect defense against her partner (for example I put MND in a majority, so maybe she was trying to counterattack me) Lastly, Deb didn't give much away on its face.
Summary Conclusions: None
Round 3
I can't see DCF as a wolf in any case, was pretty steadfast against Deb despite ample opportunities to waver. Furthermore, as I pointed out, a wolf playing the 'if X is human shoot Y next' never shoots X first if X is a wolf. It would be the first of its kind in my view. In my mind DCF is very very low on the suspect list.
Reviewing Skys commentary now, he looks like a pretty safe bet for human, but , as I said, he can be quite wily. In any case, I think Sky/Hoo is especially unlikely, as if they are partners, their coordination in this round was very poor (refer to Hoo agreeing with Sky's theory yet doing the opposite of Sky vote wise)
Music votes Deb over Spider to break a mid-round tie
There are some other odds and ends but nothing groundbreaking
Summary Conclusions: Rule out DCF (Im quite confident in this), nearly rule out Sky, rule out Sky/Hoo
Round 4
I think wolves, having just had a member shot, would be conservative, and not 'target' themselves in the puppeeting, especially as neither of them established themselves as likely clear (for example a decisive vote on Deb) this lessens my suspicions of Brin/Log, with the exception that they were hoping to dissuade votes on them out of 'pity' which does raise an alarming interpretation of Log's comments to Music
Nothing else I have the energy for at the moment.
Brin's opening salvo against me is quite odd, like she wasn't taking new information into account, but I don't think that is necessarily wolfish
Summary conclusion: Nothing substantial
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 20:10:29---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Round 1:
Only thing I note is Fint's 'panicked' comment. The panic doesn't bother me, but her extreme contortion to avoid voting Brin is worth noting.
Fint wrote
Oh no! Puppet votes will put me and bRIN in a two-vote-majority tie. I don't want to be shot, but I also don't want to be so low as to vote bRIN to save my own skin... (Plus she could do the same. lol)
Can we maybe rearrange some votes to get the whole MoO thingy going on again?
Can we maybe rearrange some votes to get the whole MoO thingy going on again?
Also note, Jojo added a third vote to Brin, this is would be an unprecedented level of aggression for wolf partners, I think Jojo/Brin can be nearly ruled out (I never played with Jojo before so not 100% certain if such a wildcard move is in her playbook)
Summary Conclusion: Rule out Brin/Jojo
Round 2
Really not a lot here. Waylanders' 'Shoot a puppet/puppeteer comment may be relevant as we fill in these blanks
Jojo to vote Spider
Wallander to vote Fint
HP to vote Deb
I don't see Brin as an aggressive player, her putting me into the mix would make sense if she needed to play indirect defense against her partner (for example I put MND in a majority, so maybe she was trying to counterattack me) Lastly, Deb didn't give much away on its face.
Summary Conclusions: None
Round 3
I can't see DCF as a wolf in any case, was pretty steadfast against Deb despite ample opportunities to waver. Furthermore, as I pointed out, a wolf playing the 'if X is human shoot Y next' never shoots X first if X is a wolf. It would be the first of its kind in my view. In my mind DCF is very very low on the suspect list.
Reviewing Skys commentary now, he looks like a pretty safe bet for human, but , as I said, he can be quite wily. In any case, I think Sky/Hoo is especially unlikely, as if they are partners, their coordination in this round was very poor (refer to Hoo agreeing with Sky's theory yet doing the opposite of Sky vote wise)
Music votes Deb over Spider to break a mid-round tie
There are some other odds and ends but nothing groundbreaking
Summary Conclusions: Rule out DCF (Im quite confident in this), nearly rule out Sky, rule out Sky/Hoo
Round 4
I think wolves, having just had a member shot, would be conservative, and not 'target' themselves in the puppeeting, especially as neither of them established themselves as likely clear (for example a decisive vote on Deb) this lessens my suspicions of Brin/Log, with the exception that they were hoping to dissuade votes on them out of 'pity' which does raise an alarming interpretation of Log's comments to Music
Nothing else I have the energy for at the moment.
Brin's opening salvo against me is quite odd, like she wasn't taking new information into account, but I don't think that is necessarily wolfish
Summary conclusion: Nothing substantial
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 20:10:29---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Going to review, but off the cuff.....I don't see how Log's vote being unchangeable has any bearing on your decision, if you believe him to be the best vote, vote him. It would be a different story if there were forced votes ON him, then I could see issuing some caution, but in this case, his comments toward you are largely irrelevant and vaguely 'bullying'' I mean moreso in a guilt tripping sense.
My inability to choose a vote IS relevant because it means I can't more easily dissuade majorities put upon me or save myself by voting for someone who seems suspicious. If the only majorities were for me and Brin and I had one more vote on me, I couldn't change my vote to create a hopeful tie. Putting someone, who cannot vote, more or less, into a "solid majority" is certainly a bit unfair. How in the world is it not? You're tying up a man's hand and saying he's bullying people for pointing out the fact that his hand is tied up.I don't care whether he was ACTUALLY in a majority, at that time, later, or never. I'm going based off of what you THOUGHT at the time. Your words clearly say "because he is in a majority." You further clarify that at that time you thought he was in a majority by saying Spider created the majority, etc and so forth. All we have to go by in this game is what we all type out. And that's what you typed.
And you never make mistakes while typing? It should be clear from what I've said in the game, barring that moment, that I chose not to vote for the player in a majority. I didn't think I was voting for someone in a majority, nor would I have. This should be easy to understand. I forgot the word "not".Also, I don't know why one wouldn't "freak out" over a good amount of votes placed upon them, wolf or otherwise. Humans can get shot just as easily as wolves and get shot more often. Just because some players freak out over players concerned with being wrongfully shot does not make those concerned the ones who are "freaking out".
Why didn't the Libertarian cross the road?
You can argue the timing was a bit early, and if you meant that a majority for the sake of a majority is unfair, fine I can agree to that. But if Music legitimately thinks you are a wolf, she is perfectly justified in voting you....gotta go on with my review though
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other considerations
The only real reason I don't suspect Fints is because Harry was eaten in what appeared to be a seer targeting, I really don't know why he was eaten now Fint made a possible error in that early on she said if she was a wolf she wouldn't be so bad as to 'panic' under a simple majority, but later she used her inexperience as an explanation for her behavior, which is a little conflicting.
Fint is back on the table....Im less sold on Hoo now....will contemplate the current situation
bRIN voted for DrHoo
dcf525 voted for bRIN
DrHoo voted for bRIN
Fintpops voted for LogicalRoger
jojobaby29 voted for bRIN
LogicalRoger voted for DrHoo
musicneverdies voted for LogicalRoger
Skybet voted for Fintpops
The_Spider voted for DrHoo
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 20:59:55---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
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other considerations
The only real reason I don't suspect Fints is because Harry was eaten in what appeared to be a seer targeting, I really don't know why he was eaten now Fint made a possible error in that early on she said if she was a wolf she wouldn't be so bad as to 'panic' under a simple majority, but later she used her inexperience as an explanation for her behavior, which is a little conflicting.
Fint is back on the table....Im less sold on Hoo now....will contemplate the current situation
bRIN voted for DrHoo
dcf525 voted for bRIN
DrHoo voted for bRIN
Fintpops voted for LogicalRoger
jojobaby29 voted for bRIN
LogicalRoger voted for DrHoo
musicneverdies voted for LogicalRoger
Skybet voted for Fintpops
The_Spider voted for DrHoo
---This message was edited on 2016-09-18 20:59:55---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
will decide in the morning
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Unfortunately don't have a lot of time today to post anything meaningful. I'm going to switch to LR due to general aversion, and other reasons. I can articulate more next round should I survive it.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
I was hoping for more help, or atleast a fighting comment that would let me sympathize with someone. I'm still not at all confident in a Hoo vote....still he never really explained why he voted me last round (the 3rd vote quite early). The only apparent reason, was he was so convinced that Deb was the victim of a 'frame job' (a line of reasoning I never found compelling) that he joined any majority to safe gaurd her (although this was needlessly early in the round).
However, he notes later that Deb is a good vote, and switches off as the 5th vote on her (maybe not a landslide, but quite distant from a tense situation). There have been plenty of 'loopy' players who have not been fooled by such votes in the past.
For now I'm content to leave things tied in 3 ways. If the alphabet thing rings true (including the '#1 voter precedene' thing) Dr Hoo is on the hook. If Hoo isn't the victim, we can put this tie theory to bed.
The only reason I would vote for Brin, is her decision to vote for me this round, is highly alarming, especially as we move toward must lynch. I am here for the remainder if any final pleas move me.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-19 07:21:46---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
However, he notes later that Deb is a good vote, and switches off as the 5th vote on her (maybe not a landslide, but quite distant from a tense situation). There have been plenty of 'loopy' players who have not been fooled by such votes in the past.
For now I'm content to leave things tied in 3 ways. If the alphabet thing rings true (including the '#1 voter precedene' thing) Dr Hoo is on the hook. If Hoo isn't the victim, we can put this tie theory to bed.
The only reason I would vote for Brin, is her decision to vote for me this round, is highly alarming, especially as we move toward must lynch. I am here for the remainder if any final pleas move me.
---This message was edited on 2016-09-19 07:21:46---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
The_Spider wrote:
I'm fine being suspicious though. The wolves can use me as a scapegoat, leaving me in the game longer. Gives me more chance to play.
Also, LR, you must have made a LOT of typos, because this is your direct quote:
---This message was edited on 2016-09-19 07:51:01---
Fint made a possible error in that early on she said if she was a wolf she wouldn't be so bad as to 'panic' under a simple majority, but later she used her inexperience as an explanation for her behavior, which is a little conflicting.
Because I'm not a wolf. If I were a wolf, I would have done my "panicking" off camera, so to speak. And I'm not blaming "inexperience." I said I'm not as SEASONED as the rest of you. As in, "no longer affected by the ebbs and flows of the game due to desensitization." A lot of times, when I play with the people who have been in a whole bunch of games, they feel like they're playing only by going through the motions. This game is still fresh for me, so it's the little things that bring me fun.I'm fine being suspicious though. The wolves can use me as a scapegoat, leaving me in the game longer. Gives me more chance to play.
Also, LR, you must have made a LOT of typos, because this is your direct quote:
I'm mostly voting for KZ because he's in a majority, though I'll admit I could vote for Spider due to it being his decision to create that majority, but then I'd create a majority.
Right there you said Spider "created the majority." Then you say if you voted Spider, YOU'D be making a majority. So how would you like to revise your post now? Gonna need a lot more than a missing "not."
---This message was edited on 2016-09-19 07:51:01---
As I don't want to leave my fate to the Tie theory, I'm changing my vote to LR. It will give him a majority. It may make me look bad, but at least there is a chance that He Is a wolf. I know we need all the humans around as possible.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
Your love gave me memories too beautiful to forget.
The issue I always have with Roger, is he tends not to show a genuine 'human side'
He's always measured in his responses in either role, so the little human emotional/reflexive type responses are minimal. I try not to make any reads on him, just try to gauge if what he's saying and arguing for ring true. I'm not convinced either way on him, so I can't say I really follow what this argument regarding the 'majority' things is all about.
Let's hope luck or the mighty alphabet steers us right
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
He's always measured in his responses in either role, so the little human emotional/reflexive type responses are minimal. I try not to make any reads on him, just try to gauge if what he's saying and arguing for ring true. I'm not convinced either way on him, so I can't say I really follow what this argument regarding the 'majority' things is all about.
Let's hope luck or the mighty alphabet steers us right
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
I think its been pretty well established above, you had nothing to worry about (over and above the luck of the draw) by the examples listed above, and if anything, you were in the driver's seat, but I certainly cant blame you for switching to defend yourself......
I didn't suspect Brin, I didn't really suspect Roger. I may make a rash final second move here, but I think Im inclined to let things stand
I think Rog is human though and will be a loss considering all the tension he has established with other players
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
I didn't suspect Brin, I didn't really suspect Roger. I may make a rash final second move here, but I think Im inclined to let things stand
I think Rog is human though and will be a loss considering all the tension he has established with other players
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Night has fallen, and so has another human
Saboteur, Seer and 2 Puppeteers remain
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Saboteur, Seer and 2 Puppeteers remain
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
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